9/17    Question: To those of you opposed to various military actions, what
        do you propose the US do?  I understand the objection(s) to military
        response.  I'm not debating that.  What action(s) do you propose we
        take instead?  I'm looking for serious responses.  Please, I'm not
        looking for answers in the negative as to what we shouldn't do.  I
        honestly want to know what you think we should be doing, if anything.
        Concrete stuff, not simply "follow international law" and other
        fuzzy stuff like that.  Thanks.
        \_ my position on the subject is that "war" is completely the wrong
           concept to invoke because it's an extremely loaded word with
           lots of consequences. i think what you want is to ARREST the
           group of international bandits using whatever means necessary.
           war is an overraction. this was not an act of war. this was
           a criminal murder. you need two nations for war, with citizens
           and soldiers. what you have is a bunch of renegades. Go arrest
           them and all this anger will be dealt with properly. -ali
           \_ But most of these renegades have support from one of a variety
              of middle eastern nations.  arresting a specific group may
              eliminiate one cell, but it does not solve the problem -- as
              long as the support is there, the terrorists will continue to
              exist.  If someone is harboring a criminal, they implicitly
              become accomplices; if a national entity is harboring these
              criminals....what do you suggest?  Asking nicely hasn't turned
              up any real results thus far, and violating another nation's
              sovereignity is an act of war...        -mice
              sovereignity (crossing their borders w/o permission to make an
              arrest) is an act of war...        -mice
              \_ Most of them come from saudialabia and uae, whose
                 dictatorship governments are very friendly to us.  Doesn't
                 that tell u something?
                 \_ Yes, that you're not very well informed.
        \_ nuke pakistan
           \_ Pakistan appears to be cooperating.  Why do you want to nuke a
              potential ally in the area which likely has intelligence
              information on bin Laden?
        \_ let's do the aghgan people a favor and take out the taliban.
           they are oppressive even to their own kind. no nukes just invade
           and set up a new government and hand it over to saudi arabia or
           or india.
            \_ I agree.  Taking out the talibananas would be a favor for
               the afghan people, but it may be costly for us.  Still
               it's a good cause.  However do not hand it over to
               banana republics like saudialabia or hindostan, but hand it to
               banana republics like saudialabia or indo, but hand it to
               UK or Japan.
               \_ yah. hand it over to the gaps of the world, or the old navies
           \_ I agree.  Taking out the talibananas would be a favor for the
              afghan people, but it may be costly for us.  Still it's a good
              cause.  However do not hand it over to banana republics like
              saudialabia or hindostan, but hand it to UK or Japan.
           \_ oh yeah, cool... let's overthrow another gov't like we tried
              to do in Nicaragua, etc.
           \_ If the Taliban is harboring terrorists, then that's precisely what
              we will do.
        \_ I think we need to bomb a few random deserted place in Afghanistan
           without killing civilians just to show that we are committed to
           military retaliation.  This won't actually do anything to get us bin
           mility retaliation.  This won't actually do anything to get us bin
           Laden, but it'll settle national anger and keep our face.  After
           that, pump all the resources into CIA and do the real work of
           getting bin Laden and destroying the terrorist network.  We need to
           revise the ban on CIA assasination as well.  (I'm not debating
           whether or not CIA is all screw-up and is worth re-vitalizing.  It
           just happens to be the agency we have at this moment.)
           just happens to be the agency we have on hand at this moment.)
           \_ Moron.  Many terrorist camps are near civilian settlements.  Why
              kill off people who are innocent bystanders and could tell is
              where the bad guys are?
        \_ Change US policy over time to not support Israel? Not something
           I believe, but maybe others do.
           \_ Doesn't this just "reward" the terrorists for their actions by
              giving them what they want?  How would this discourage further
              violence against us to further shift our policy until our policy
              becomes whatever they want because we fear them?
              \_ Yeah, I think so... I agree with the previous poster's
                 statement though... I think we need to get Osama et. al.
                 through diplomacy, intelligence, etc and additionally
                 evaluate our actions that were creating this climate of
                 terrorism (eg stop giving money to Israel).
              \_ You can't think that way. That's the attitude of a brat who
                 refuses to stop doing something because his pride won't let
                 him admit he was wrong. IF something is wrong for us we should
                 stop. Such as our own support of terrorism in the past, and
                 Israel's support of of terrorism in the past...read up on what
                 they were doing to get the British out.
                 \_ Get the British out of where?
                    \_ Israel. Duh. King David hotel, Semiramis hotel (bombing
                       leading to collapse of building). Other stuff like:
                       http://www.jerusalemites.org/sabra.html
                       It's hard to find objective sources on any of it though.
                 \_ Sure I can think that way.  Here's another way to think
                    of it: the nagging brat who screams until his mother gives
                    in to his demand for the new power ranger toy.  Then he
                    wants the other ones.  So he screams.  Then he wants a
                    bigger cookie, then another cookie, then no curfew or
                    bedtime, then he wants....  When does it stop?  If mom
                    had punished his poor behavior (the screaming) at stage
                    one, then the lack of reward would, in time, cease his
                    screaming fits.  How's that for an alternative line of
                    thought on the psychology of children and terrorists?
                    \_ I said "IF SOMETHING IS WRONG FOR US." Dimwit. Demanding
                       cookies isn't a valid analogy for any case of terrorism
                       I can think of.
           \_ What do we get out of supporting Israel?
           \_ We need to get little boy Yasser and little boy Sharon
              together and keep spanking their arses until they agree to
              stop their bitch fight.  Aren't the Arabs and Jews fucking
              relatives?  Don't understand why we should be suffering for
              their darn family feud.  Fucking create problems for the
              whole world.
           just to show that we are committed to mility retaliation.  This
           won't actually do anything to get us bin Laden, but it'll settle
           national anger and keep our "face".  After that, pump all the
           resources into CIA and do the real work of getting bin Laden and
           destroying the terrorist network.  We need to revise the ban on
           CIA assasination as well.  (I'm not debating whether or not
           CIA is all screw-up and is worth re-vitalizing.  It just happens to
           be the agency we have on hand at this moment.)
           \_ it's a war, if we don't do anything to take out a government that
           hides behind a terrorist group then we are inviting nations to create
           terrorist groups (but really working for their government's interests)
           where their government can easily detach themselves but in actuality
           they support them. We have to show this is B.S. and any nation that
           harbors terrorist is using this terrorist group as their own weapon
              their darn family feud.
              their darn family feud.  Fucking create problems for the whole
              world.