8/9      Do any Java developers use make these days or has Ant pretty much
        become the de facto standard?
        \_ ant stopped sucking enough to use it six months ago, make still
           sucks
        \_ my old job used ant... worked well.
        \_ "ant" is just stupid. or rather, grotesque. XML is only
           vaguely human-readable. Gime a simple makefile any day of
           the week.
           \_ simple makefile? uh... ok go ahead... and dont get any tabs
              confused with spaces.
              \_ You must be exceptionally stupid.  I have been using make
                 for a couple years now, and this has NEVER been a problem
                 for me.  Christ, what are they teaching at UCB nowadays?
                                  \_ From the motd posts it seems like they
                                     have substitued real computers running
                                     real operating systems with cheap x86
                                     crap running Linux and Win32. You can't
                                     blame them though since most of today's
                                     incoming freshmen are so clueless its
                                     frightening.
                                        \_ you'd rather have HP crap running
                                           HP/UX?  Get a clue.   -tom
              \_ Those who confuse tabs with spaces in makefiles have
                 not yet achieved enlightenment.
           \_ I'm with you on the first part.  I just use an IDE that
              generates makefiles (acutally, jam) underneath and I
              don't need to care about it at all.
        \_ Cons!  Cons!  Cons! is the standard!   Make replacement!
        \_ I use make for just about everything. make rocks!