| WIKI | FAQ | Tech FAQ | |
 http://csua.com/feed/ | |
| ||||||
| 4/3 |
| 2001/5/24 [Politics/Domestic/California/Arnold, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:21340 Activity:nil |
5/23 A well-reasoned argument about why socialist economists are silly.
http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a394ac341016e.htm
\_ a well-reasoned argument from http://freerepublic.com? not bloody likely
\_ Changing what someone else wrote and then responding to it is
not impressive. --Galen (!top)
\_ He didn't change anything. -- top
\_ Yes he did. (I changed it back.) --Galen
\_ this is the liberal mentality, suppress free speech
and replace with what you believe is right. fucken commie bitch
\_ Wow you must be a fast reader.
\_ So without reading the article you entirely dismiss everything it
might say because of where it was posted? Okey dokey! |
| 4/3 |
|
| www.freerepublic.com/forum/a394ac341016e.htm Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works. As usual, they paint the picture of free markets as the root of all ill and injustice, and condemnation of the rich as the solution to all ills. As usual, they argue mostly ad hominum, claiming that all who disagree with them are immoral and interested. Without engaging on the substance of economic questions, they present condemnation of the rich and of economic freedom as the necessary prelude to all that is right and true. To see how much sense this fails to make, just on its face, look at history from the middle ages until now. See, no capitalism - things are somewhat rosy for the well-off, although there was also practical dentistry. And obviously all workers are ground down to the barest means of subsistence. You can tell, because in the middle ages before there was capitalism (and everywhere there has never been such a thing), everyone was so healthy and long-lived -like life expectencies in the 30s. Obviously, if in the entire history of mankind, there has been one economic system that occurred during the period and places of the greatest material advancement for the average man, then that system is to blame for that not occuring at any time or place in which it doesn't. If the data say, "if x, then y", then simply say "y, unless x". You have to admit that the brazenness of it, put that way, does ensure a certain confusion. If economics is wrong, then refute it - prove its theorems or explanations are false, by logical reasoning open to criticism by other economists. The arguments have just been *utterly ignored* by brazen socialists crying bias, and the like. For instance, no one has answered Bohm-Bawerk's refutation of the exploitation theory of interest (or "surplus value"). Even most socialist economists had to admit that they had been flat wrong about that. But then they changed *nothing* about their doctrines or prescriptions, which had been based on that idea, and continued to use it for propaganda purposes. Several have either argued or allowed to pass the idea that economic system stuff is not a matter of "morality", no, morals are more important than that and economic stuff is a secondary, more utilitarian thing. When there is one doctrine which teaches that all men's social goods are fundamentally in harmony, and can therefore be carried on in large measure voluntarily, sure, but in addition, that because of it men are each other's helpers, naturally - that almost all the means to men's ends can best be achieved by free social cooperation, including respect for what is properly someone else's - and when this doctrine is regularly and viciousless assailed and smeared by men who openly teach that one man's good is another's harm, that between some classes of men it is war to the knife as to the means of life, etc - then you better believe that has moral implications. It is *not* moral, in the least, to teach a *false* doctrine that men are each other's enemies. It is not goodness, in the least, to smear those who maintain the harmony of interests of men in voluntary social cooperation, either as though they are base or are not concerned with anything of moral importance. It is not enlightenment to pretend that knowing cynicism admits this even if ivory tower isolation doesn't. Because, for one, it is actually false, and two it is a practical and acted-on reason for men to tear each other in pieces. Then tell me it isn't a moral question, or that it is of merely material importance, or any of the rest of the usual dodges. Part One - the Exploitation Theory I only intend to treat of one fallacy of the socialist view of economics, but that the central one. In the course of it, I trust it will become clear that I am perfectly able to tell that the socialists are wrong about the theory of value, even in terms of what they themselves believe and act upon as individuals. And the only agreements I require from socialists on this score to prove my points, they are unwilling to deny me in practice, no matter how much they are willing to dispute mere theory when concrete action need not follow. The socialist doctrine originates in a theory of value that considers profit to arise from exploitation. While economics, having considered and rejected that conception as inadequate to the realities of value (as men actual value, that is), considers profit within the general context of the theory of marginal utility. And also sees the basic error of the exploitation theory in the phenomenon of time-value, which the exploitation theory thoroughly confuses. Indeed, it is not far off to say that the exploitation theory consists in misunderstanding the role of time in the theory of value. And as I will demonstrate by the end of this post, even socialists do not believe and act on their own theory of value, but on mine. Smith had no understanding of the theory of marginal utility. Ricardo discovered that, but misapplied it only to land and because of that, misunderstand the phenomena of value in relation to both capital and labor. Before this error was corrected, first Malthus and then Marx based on this one error the deduction of the "iron law of wages" or predicted a tendency of real wages of labor to sink to the level of subsistence. Which indeed would follow from misreading the items to which marginal utilities refer, and restricting those only to land (or later, capital as equivalent to it in the full exploitation theory), and not applying that analysis equally to labor itself. As soon as that is done, the prediction of falling real wages is contra-indicated. The exploitation theory is thus exploded, its historical cause is identified, the nature of the error it makes is made plain (on which more anon), and its actual falsehood as to the causes of value is confirmed by history to simply not be so. The exploitation theory was a scientific theory in the strict sense of the term - it made falsifiable predictions. Its internal error can be demonstrated even to someone who claims to believe its statements about value, who can be shown that he himself is unwilling to act on the basis of the supposed truth of his own doctrine of value. To which any believer in that theory will be challenged by the end of this post. Many might think or claim they disagree with me about the theory of value. And I can prove it - I make them an offer and they *all refuse*. In my offer, the things to be exchanged are of equal value according to the exploitation theory of value - and I will throw in an extra dollar. But they are not equal according to my theory of value, based on orthodox economics. And the socialists will not take their side of the trade. Showing that they themselves do not believe and act on their own theory of value. Once it is pointed out to them, they either understand the valuation difference, and therewith admit the error involved in the theory of value of Marx and the exploitation theory, or they simply stop their ears and begin slanging. If they understand the point and nevertheless continue to propound the exploitation theory, then from that point on they *know* that they are doing so in an attempt to secure *more* true value, as they themselves actually value things (as oppose to what they continue to *say*, in that case), in exchange, and that their claim to believe the trades they propose are equal is a mere fraud. There is only one side of the trade they claim is of equally valued things that they are willing to stand on themselves. Proving that, unless they alter their theories and claims once this is shown to them, they *know* they are wronging the capitalist in the claims they advance in the exploitation theory, which they nevertheless continue to do. You see, I do not need them to agree with me on an abstract point of economics. All I have to do is show to everyone else that there is a particular act they are not willing to perform, which their own theories say th... |
| freerepublic.com -> www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/browse Republic Log In | Register News/Activism Latest | Search | Topics | Home | Help News/Activism Threads Threads | Messages Search (by title: enter all relevant words or partial title) Search Austrians Praise Schwarzenegger in US Posted by Ernest_at_the_Beach On 05/13/2004 9:28:13 PM PDT with 1 comment The Las Vegas Sun ^ | May 13, 2004 at 11:56:36 PDT | GEORGE JAHN GRAZ, Austria (AP) - America, nein. Arnie, ja! When Austrians vent about the United States, the key word nowadays is "no" to things American, with only a few exceptions - including praise of Arnold Schwarzenegger. Arnie, that country has a real problem," says Robert Biber, echoing sentiments across Austria roused by images of US soldiers abusing Iraqi prisoners. Outrage as KISS player mouths off on Muslims Posted by veronica On 05/13/2004 9:25:48 PM PDT with 3 comments Sydney Morning Herald ^ | May 14, 2004 KISS bass player Gene Simmons has caused an uproar among Australia's Muslim community by launching an attack on Islamic culture while in Melbourne. The lizard-tongued rock god who is touring Australia with the world's most enduring glam rock band launched an attack on Muslim extremists during an interview on Melbourne's 3AW radio - including comments which were labelled inaccurate. Cold Turkey Posted by Rennes Templar On 05/13/2004 9:23:01 PM PDT In These Times ^ | May 10, 2004 | Kurt Vonnegut Many years ago, I was so innocent I still considered it possible that we could become the humane and reasonable America so many members of my generation used to dream of. We dreamed of such an America during the Great Depression, when there were no jobs. And then we fought and often died for that dream during the Second World War, when there was no peace. But I know now that there is not a chance in hell of Americas becoming humane and reasonable. Because power corrupts us, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. May, 2004 10amET | Fintan Dunne The family firm of beheaded American Nick Berg, was named by a conservative website in a list of 'enemies' of the Iraq occupation. That could explain his arrest by Iraqi police --a detention which fatally delayed his planned return from Iraq and may have led directly to his death. Nick Berg, 26 disappeared into incommunicado detention after his arrest by Iraqi police in March, 2004. He vanished again after his release 13 days later. Science & Space ^ | Thursday, May 13, 2004 Posted: 10:13 PM EDT (0213 GMT) | From Dave Santucci, CNN Firm is competing for the $10 million X Prize Aircraft designer Burt Rutan and his firm Scaled Composites took a giant leap early Thursday toward becoming the first private company to send a person into space. Scaled Composites, funded by Microsoft co-founder and billionaire Paul Allen, set a new civilian altitude record of 40 miles in a craft called SpaceShipOne during a test flight above California's Mojave Desert. Turning Shame Into Outrage Posted by neverdem On 05/13/2004 9:18:08 PM PDT with 1 comment LA Times ^ | May 13, 2004 | Charles Paul Freund Charles Paul Freund is a senior editor at Reason magazine. It's a tough call whether Abu Musab al-Zarqawi the Jordanian militant who is reportedly responsible for the videotaped butchery of Nicholas Berg is more stupid than he is brutal, or whether he is a bigger monster than he is a fool. Zarqawi's own nauseating videotape makes the case for his indescribable brutality and may have inadvertently delivered his enemy from its own demoralization. Official Says War Budget to Exceed $50B Posted by Ernest_at_the_Beach On 05/13/2004 9:14:08 PM PDT with 3 comments Yahoo via AP ^ | Thu May 13, 6:29 PM ET | ALAN FRAM, Associated Press Writer WASHINGTON - Wars in Iraq (news - web sites) and Afghanistan (news - web sites) will cost more than $50 billion next year, a top Defense Department official told Congress Thursday in the Bush administration's clearest description yet of the conflicts' price tags. Berg's Father Demands Answers From Bush (Free Republic mentioned) Posted by kristinn On 05/13/2004 9:13:32 PM PDT with 25 comments Duluth News Tribune ^ | Thursday, May 13, 2004 | Nicole Weisensee Egan Posted on Thu, May 13, 2004 Berg's father demands answers from Bush BY NICOLE WEISENSEE EGAN Knight Ridder Newspapers PHILADELPHIA - (KRT) - The day he buried his son, Nick Berg's father angrily lashed out at President Bush - and said he had a question for him: "I would like to ask him if it's true that al-Qaeda offered to trade my son's life for another person," Michael Berg told a small group of reporters early Thursday morning outside his West Chester home. One Last Card to Play Posted by Russian Sage On 05/13/2004 9:10:54 PM PDT Claremont Review of Books ^ | Posted March 18, 2004 | By Peter W Schramm One Last Card to Play A review of Lincoln's Emancipation Proclamation: The End of Slavery in America, by Allen C Guelzo. Since 1865, the new york state library has been the proud owner of the original Preliminary Emancipation Proclamation. Media Maelstrom Posted by hope On 05/13/2004 9:06:15 PM PDT with 3 comments News Max ^ | 5-11-04 | John L Perry Media MaelstromJohn L PerryTuesday, May 11, 2004 This presidential election is in peril of being swallowed in a perfect media storm, more terrifying than Edgar Allen Poes A Descent Into the Maelstrom. With the inexorable force of the novelists oerpowering whirlpool that funnels nearly every object in its clutches down, down, down into certain doom, the perfect storm of television is sucking American democracy into oblivion. The way things are headed, television mass communications with print media puppy-trotting alongside its ankles are what will determine the outcome of the 2004 presidential election. Not the candidates. Bush Team to Rework Iraq Funding After Senate Balks Posted by Ernest_at_the_Beach On 05/13/2004 8:59:04 PM PDT with 7 comments Yahoo via AFP ^ | Thu May 13, 4:11 PM ET | Vicki Allen WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Bush administration officials said they would rework a plan for a $25 billion reserve fund for Iraq (news - web sites) operations after Republican and Democratic senators on Thursday deplored it as an effort to get "a blank check" without congressional oversight. STRATFOR: Geopolitical Diary: Friday, May 14, 2004 Posted by Axion On 05/13/2004 8:57:27 PM PDT STRATFOR ^ | May 14, 2004 0305 GMT Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld and Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Richard Myers went to Iraq on May 13. Three things are clear from this trip. First, the administration is committed to retaining Rumsfeld, or at least is committed to doing everything it can to salvage him. An open letter-- Berg dies while the Senate preens Posted by hatfieldmccoy On 05/13/2004 8:54:43 PM PDT with 16 comments vanity | 5-13-04 | hatfieldmccoy Senator Hagel, Senator Nelson, It has taken two days for me to have regained my composure to the point I could actually write you. You see, I've seen the unedited video of the Berg (an American) murder. Yes I watched the horrors of 9-11. I saw the Pearl (an American) murder video and the burning and gleeful dismemberment of the four security personnel (Americans). But the Berg video was staring straight into Hell. These things took their time. They used a dull knife and took 30 seconds to saw off this man's head. AM ET LONDON, May 13 (Reuters) - Britain's Daily Telegraph newspaper suspended the weekly column of Barbara Amiel-Black after its parent, Hollinger International, filed a lawsuit accusing her and her husband Conrad Black of looting the company. Martin Newland, the editor of Britain's top-selling broadsheet, "has decided to suspend the column until legal proceedings are completed," the paper said in a statement on Thursday. What Led Nick Berg to Iraq? Posted by dyno35 On 05/13/2004 8:48:10 PM PDT with 20 comments The Philadelphia Daily News ^ | May 13, 2004 | By William Bunch BERG'S JOURNEY SPARKED FBI PROBE AND OTHER STRANGE DETAILS HE WAS not like anyone else his friends from West Chester had ever known - an adventurous dreamer, a driven idealist, part philosopher and part inventor who was bored with college Record 26m divorce win 'a pyrrhic victory' (More Saudi kidnapping) Posted by Lan... |