Berkeley CSUA MOTD:Entry 20389
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2024/12/25 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
12/25   

2001/1/20-22 [Politics/Domestic/Immigration] UID:20389 Activity:very high
1/20    http://www.vny.com/cf/news/upidetail.cfm?QID=153630
        93% whitey sierra club turns away from basic math and simple logic
        in attempt to increase diversity of sc membership.
        \_ I've got an idea; let's make redneck cowardly trolls like
        \_ Let's just make anonymous cowardly redneck bigoted trolls like
        \_ [ tom noise deleted ]
                \_ Aw, don't do that, it can be so entertaining watching tom
                   spew, drool, and spittle.
        \_ [ vacuous tom noise deleted again ]
           reiffin move to Nebraska where they belong.  -tom
           [keep deleting this, reiffin, cowardice befits you]
                \_ Haven't deleted a thing, Tom.  Nice of you to think of
                   me, though.  Once again, Tom, to be a coward means I'd
                    \_ It's the motd, kid.  It happens.  Deal.
                   have to be afraid of something.  There *are* things in
                   the world I fear, but you're not one of them.  Try not
                   to do so much self important ego boosting at the expense
                   of people who haven't been online during the day to
                   "keep deleting this".  Try to get some facts, tom,
                   before you smear someone.  Or simply grow up.  -reiffin
                \_  deleting other people's cruft w/o signing your name
                    is lame.  --erikred
                    \- i imagine some respectable fraction of the sierra club
                    just wants to go hiking with non-scary looking people who
                    have similar tastes in music, wine and cheese, but
                    politically, the club elities are a bunch of hypocrites.
                    i have more regard for people like the nature conservancy
                    [i think that is the organization that puts its money
                    where its mouth is]. lets take an example from the above
                    URL:
                         The prestigious Sierra Club had announced in 1989
                         that its goal of zero population growth required
                         that "Immigration to the United States should be
                         no greater than that which will permit achievement
                         of population stabilization in the United States."
                    Gee, arent these the people who talk about how racist
                    republicans want to put themselves in gated communities
                    and put black men in state-run "gated communitites".
                    It kind of reminds of of berkeley liberals -- aka the
                    Chez Panisse crowd -- who have personal Beet and Carrot
                    Suppliers and help raise money for important social causes
                    like organic savory herb gardens at their child's private
                    school. Tom Wolfe redux. --psb
                        \_ The Sierra Club is bad in a lot of ways, but if
                           you read the article, it specifically is
                           complaining that the club changed the above policy,
                           and now doesn't have a policy on immigration. -tom
                        \_ But how else will my kids learn about fitting in
                           with Nature without destroying Her?  I don't
                           understand where you're going with this.
                        \_ Immigration as an environmental problem is a
                           canard.  The best way to control population is to
                           educate females; ethnic females in the US get
                           better education than they do in almost any other
                           country, thus immigration will lower the overall
                           population growth.  -tom
                           \_ Wow I am really out of touch. When did female
                              become an ethnicity? -sameer
                                \_ "females who are of ethnicities other
                                   than white."  Use your brain.  -tom
                                   \_ Being stupid I don't see how
                                      increasing immigration will lower
                                      population growth.  Perhaps you can
                                      explain to us morons, tom?
                                      \_ Dear morons: some maintain there
                                         is a correlation between higher
                                         education(like in the USA) and
                                         lower population growth, that's all
                                         \- i'm going to try to keep this to
                                the narrow point about education: many, many
                                studies have show there is a strong correlation
                                between female literacy and decrease in pop.
                                growth. a particularly interesting case is
                                to comp the indian state of kerela and china.
                                kerela's literacy-based approach led to a
                                greater decrease than china's quite drastic
                                "regulatory" approach. See work of Amartya
                                Sen among others. i suspect it is largely
                                the educated that are immigrating rather than
                                the ignorant finding themselves in america and
                                winding up better educated, so that attenuates
                                the claimed effect. anyway, i'll leave it at
                                that. --psb
                                         \_ But will everyone continue to get
                                            the same level of education if
                                            immigration continues at the
                                            current rates, or even grows?
                                            Like most things, education is
                                            a resource.  There are only so
                                            many teachers, classrooms, etc,
                                            to go around.  And why do women
                                            have to go to another country to
                                            get an education so they'll have
                                            fewer kids?  Isn't education one
                                            of the easier things to bring to
                                            people right where they already
                                            live?
                                            \_ Yes, but there are two points;
                                               one is that immigration is zero-
                                               sum from an environmental
                                               perspective (as opposed to a
                                               NIMBY perspective), and the
                                               other is that it's very likely
                                               the the specific act of
                                               emigrating to the US is likely
                                               to be an actual improvement.
                                               That's not saying it's wouldn't
                                               also be an improvement to have
                                               better education elsewhere. -tom
                                               \_ Zero sum would imply that an
                                                  American uses the same amount
                                                  of the world's resources as
                                                  the average immigrant. This
                                                  is not even close to true.
                                                  Even if you factor in the
                                                  next generation or so (which
                                                  is highly speculative. -ausman
                                                  American immigrant uses the
                                                  same amount of the world's
                                                  resources as he would have
                                                  had he stayed in his original
                                                  country. This is not even close
                                                  to true. -ausman
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12/25   

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