10/13   Does the term Arab apply to all the middle eastern people? Or is
        it more specific or more generic than that? Does it imply religion
        (e.g. Muslim) in which case includes most of the middle eastern
        countries EXCEPT Israel?
        \_ arab is not synonymous with middle eastern.  nope, not at all.
           many countries which aren't in the middle east have substantial
           arab populations, such as much of northern africa.
           it has nothing to do with religion-- there are muslim arabs,
           christian arabs, jewish arabs, atheist arabs, whatever.
           i think irani people don't consider themselves arab, or something
           like that.
           \_ You're mostly right. Most Iranians (not Irani, but who cares?)
              consider themselves "Persians", but there are also Iranian
              Arabs. Mostly from the south, where the oil is. There is
              tension between Persian and Arab Iranians. House of Kabab is
              owned by an Arab Iranian, but he considers himself Arab first.
              Arabs usually speak Arabic, so that's an easy way to tell.
              Afghans and Iranians don't speak Arabic (as their first tongue),
              and they don't consider themselves Arabs.
           \_ As far as I'm concerned, Israelis == Arabs.
              But I'm a stupid 'Merican so hey.
              \_ yah they are all just a binch of camel jockey sand niggers
                 anyway right?  Fucking idiot.
                \_ Cool it jewboy. It's just some Hatfields + McCoys shit.
                        and the way all them nationalistic fundamentalists
                        act, man, it's more like "sand _honkeys._"
                        Israelis == Arabs == Bible-beatin' Southerners.
                        troll troll troll troll!
                        \_ hey look at the cute little oriental girl!
        \_ Ali AlabedAlafaelMohammedAhalaha Rahimi, you wanna answer this?
              \_ what about the Iraqians?
                 \_ What about them? Shitheads lead by So-dam Insane.
           Arab (n): An Arabic-speaking gentile-ass who lives in Arabia or
                    \_ so what about the Iranis or the Saudians? How they
                       differ from Israelians? More moderate than the Jordani?
        \_ Sorry to inject reality into this discussion, but:
           Arab (n): An Arabic-speaking person who lives in Arabia or
                     North Africa
           (Therefore not Israeli).  -tom
           \_ As usual, you are an idiot. Tell the Syrians and Iraqis that
              they are not Arabs for me.
                \_ changing "person" to "jewass" or "gentile-ass" is
                   juvenile and boring.  -tom
                \_ defining Arab, as if it needed defining, is juvenile
                   and boring.  The song "Ha" is Juvenile and boring.
                   But "gentile-ass", while juvenile, is not boring. ha!
                \_ They are not Arabs, they are camel jockeys or sand
                   n*grs (whichever racial slur you prefer)
        \_ Regardless nationalistic fundamentalists are the same the world
           over, they freakin' SUCK ASS.
        \_ muslims are not synonmous with arab btw
           \_ E.g. Malaysia and Indonesia are Islamic SE Asian countries.
        \_ note how there are no muslim 1st world countries.  wonder if
           it's mutually exclusive
           \_ Note that there are no Indian 1st world countries.  wonder if
              it's mutually exclusive
           \_ To build a 1st world nation requires intelligence, rationality,
              tolerance, humanity etc. These attributes are completely
              orthogonal to the muslim nature.
              \_ What about the era of Persia?  It was more "1st world" than
                 Europe at that time.
                 \_ They were Persians, not (as you might say), dirty Arabs.
                 \_ yeah, before Islam took over and ruined it
                 \_ What about it? Alexander the Great conqured Persia,
                    and then the Romans and later on the Russians. Face
                    it, the height of Muslim glory came during Akbar's
                    reign in India. Even then, he entrusted the daily
                    affairs of empire to a Hindu, because he felt (and
                    stated in writing) that no muslim could ever posses
                    the requisite intelligence to run an empire.
                    \_ Your lack of historical knowledge is disturbing.
                       The Arab empires during the "Dark Ages" in Europe
                       were larger, more civilized, and longer lasting
                       than any Christian empire.
                       \_ Perhaps in the years between the fall of the
                          eastern empire and the beginning of the
                          renasiance arab nations were better organized
                          than european ones, but only marginally so.
                          Even during the height of thier power, muslim
                          rulers outside of india ran countries in which
                                 \_ Does this qualifier makes any difference?
                          the average citizen was quite poor and had little
                          freedom.  They can hardly be considered 1st world
                          as superior civilizations existed in non-muslim
                          dominated parts of the the world at the same time.
        \_ Alexander never conquered Russia and such country did not even
        exist yet. A collection of feudal city states that later united as
        Kievan Rus' more or less has been paying off the Mongols to leave
        them alone for 300 years but as the Kievan Rus' government seat was
        in Kiev, you could just as well argue that it was actually the
        ancient Ukraine. There was neither Moscow (only 850 years old) nor
        St.Petersbourgh (negligiable age). Few of those cities are now in
        Russia, but they were never a capital of any country by such name.
        What I believe to be the oldest of the bunch, called Novgorod was
        actually a democracy. (strangely, it means "new town", not to be
        confused with my hometown Nizniy Novgorod ( "lower new town" ) that
        was build later than this, but still before Moscow. Could you have
        ment Genghis Khan? The Mongols weren't much of conquerers, because
        they never could live in a town for more than a couple of days, but
                \_ "a couple of days" is enough time to wrap you in blankets
                   as stomp on it with horses as a token of honor.
        they obviously didn't lose any time. Slavs are supposed to be blond.
        All it really took to kicking them out was to stop mutual backstabbing
        that's all.                                     -muchandr
           \_   One day an old polish jew, living in Warsaw, has his last light
              bulb burn out. To get a new one he'll have to stand in line for
              two hours at the store (and they'll probably be out by the
              time he gets there), so he goes up to his attic and starts
              rummaging around for an old oil lamp he vaguely remembers seeing.
                He finds the old brass lamp in the bottom of a trunk that has
              seen better days. He starts to polish it and (poof!) a genie
              appears in cloud of smoke.
                "Hoho, Mortal!" says the genie, stretching and yawning, "For
              releasing me I will grant you three wishes."
                The old man thinks for a moment, and says, "I want Genghis
              Khan resurrected. I want him to re-unite his mongol hordes,
              march to the Polish border, and then decide he doesn't want
              the place and march back home."
                "No sooner said than done!" thunders the genie. "Your second
              wish?"
                "Ok. I want Genghis Khan resurrected. I want him to re-unite
              his mongol hordes, march to the Polish border, and then decide
              he doesn't want the place and march back home."
                "Hmmm. Well, all right. Your third wish?"
                "I want Genghis Khan resurrected. I want him to re-unite his--"
                "OK OK OK. Right. What's this business about Genghis Khan
              marching to Poland and turning around again?"
                The old man smiles. "He has to pass through Russia six times."
        \_ Every who lives in the Middle East is Middle Eastern, but Arabs and
        Israelis are Semitic and Persians are not. The former two could never
        find any chemical / biological warfare agets that worked on one but not
        the other, and not for the lack of trying...    -muchandr
        \_ John, I forgot I owed you an explanation on Czechs. The Czech
        design bureau is Tatra (they did do trucks, but are not Russian),
        the firm who hired them was the new Bugatti under Romano Artioli,
        and yes, correct again, they are currently buiding 18 cilinder
        monsters under Bugatti label for VW AG, whose Ferdinand Piech, by
        the weirdest fluke is the designer of Audi Quattro yet majority
        shareholder of Porshe and direct descendant of Ferry Porshe. Porshe
        had to finally part ways with the aircoled boxer 6 in 911, which was
        getting too hot and too noisy at three something liters displacement
        and switch to watercooling like the rest of the wold, so imagine
        their surprise when they found out that the Czech government Tatra
        limosines, that were absolutely silent is actually an aircooled 8 of
        some 4 or 5 liter displacement. That was probably the largest modern
        aircooled car engine. Very impressive. EB110 supercar was theirs, and
        the new ones you can find at http://www.bugatti-cars.de I don't think
        VW would've dared a crack at Bugatti themselves. They were already
        scared shitless of having to do Bentleys and Lamborginis ...

                                                        -muchandr