7/31   When tipping, do you calculate 15% before tax or after
tax?  I've
        always tipped based on the total including tax.  My GF says before
        tax.  Is she being cheap?
        \_ 20% after taxes, you cheap son of a bitch.  i cant belive a bunch
           of overpaid sofware people are so cheap.  oh, wait, it's because
           programmers are mostly assholes, i rememeber. alot of blue collar
           people i know pay closer to 30% when they get good service, and
           they make a loth less than most of you.  if you every wonder
           why people don't like you, now you know.
           \_ where does this come from?
           \_ I'm a software person, I pay 15% before tax, I think it's
              fair, I may increase the tip for good service, and people
           Orient. You go to a restaurant to enjoy the food, not the service.
              like me.  So there!
        \_ 8.25% x 2 = 16.50%
                -- my dad
        \_ before you dumbass
        \_ Easiest to add 25% to pre-tax.  This is more than either of your
           two methods.
        \_ before you dumbass
           (see how much we care about you?)
        \_ ignore the flamers below.  the standard rule of thumb is 15%
           for dinner BEFORE tax and 10% BEFORE tax when doing lunch.
           the easy way to calc this is to shift your pre-tax amount
           decimal point.  that number + half that number = tip.
           your GF is not being cheap.   make a reasonable judgement and
           remember always that waiters/waitresses have to live off
           tip (so living can be easy or very hard depending on the
           establishment).  if they go out of their way to provide excellent
           service and check on water, etc often, person deserves the
           15% tip.  But if the person's a rude motherfucker, you can tip
           5% or even file a formal complaint (lots of uppity ones in s.f.,
           in the finer dining places, apparently).  hope this helps...
           oh yeah, to avoid being an asshole, round up as necessary
           and don't leave little bits of change, unless you want to be
           really insulting to some nasty waiter/waitress.
        \_ after tax and exclude the price of drinks
           \_ only if you are tipping for the drinks when they arrive
        \_ tipping is a stupid practice that has been long banned in the
           Orient. You go to a restaurant to enjoy the dog, not the service.
           \_ Not entirely true.  There is no tipping in China (I heard) or
              Japan, but there is tipping in Hong Kong.  -- yuen
           \_ that doesnt change that fact that without tipping, they
              make $2.50 an hour. Yes, that's right, there's a hole in
              the minimum wage law for employees that recieve tips.
           \- in theory it is pre-tax, so one approach to get a baseline
                is to double the [calif] tax [per above suggestion]. i think
                it is stupid not to do some kind of rounding if you are paying
                with a credit card ... which you presumably are if it is a
                big bill. some say bar tipping is 10% but again i do some
                rouding in the $.75-$1 per drink range if it is mixed drink.
                you can tip less if the bartender is just pouring out 4 shots.
                some people also recommend tipping better early at the bar
                to increase your poll() weighting [as opposed to waiting].
                at a high end place, where the waiter has to do a lot more,
                you may consult with the wime person etc. you may need to
                tip more than 15% ... for a 3.5 hour dinner with flawless
                service, tipping 15% is lame.
           \_ As someone who both works in foodservice and has a gf who does
              the same, allow me to lay out some guidelines:
              1) The server has to report tips, which they are then taxed on.
                 The server's employer usually _requires_ them to report 8%
                 (any less and the restaurant gets audited). Therefore if you
                 tip less than 8%, it costs the server money (they have to pay
                 taxes on a tip they did not get.
              2) Sitting at the same table all afternoon also costs the server
                 $$$.  waiters depend on turnover, and chilling at one table
                 (esp. a big one) denies them this. Tip extra if you spend all
                 afternoon.
                 \_ only if there aren't other free tables in their area
              3) Drinks are not taxed in CA. If you drink $50 in beer and $20
                 in food (assuming your server is bringing you those pitchers)
                 the tax will only be on the $20. Doubling the tax is not
                 acceptable.
              4) Sitting at a table and getting drinks from the bar _really_
                 pisses off your server. Expect to get loogies in your soup
                 for this offence.
              Happy Tipping!
                \- thanks for the lecture. if i am sitting at a table and get
                a drink from the bar it is because the person is taking far
                too long to come around ... if you are going to flap your lips
                or flirt with someone at another table [either for personal
                reasons or for better tips] than you should expect to lose out
                elsewhere. i am pretty patient and dont think i have
                unreasonable expectations there. also i will tip the person
                at the bar and assume this is an establishment where tips are
                split. given the profit margins on a lot of alcohol and the
                small amount of work involved, i dont think the doubleing the
                tax as a baseline for a typical meal isnt too unreasonable.
                i am sympathetic to your point about lingering at a table,
                but i wouldnt be surprised if a lot of people's tips were
                affected by beaing kept waiting 20 minutes for a table when
                you had reservation and showed up on time ... yes maybe it
                isnt the server's fault, but never the less.
                question: if you do "table service" do you prefer tipping at
                the end or by rounds? --psb
                \_ Bar ettiquite seems to favor tipping by the round -- if
                   you don't you're likely to get ignored.
                   you don't you're likely to get ignored, unless you've
                   opened up a tab. -mice