1/6     Does "engagement" mean the period after successfully proposing
        but before actual marriage ceremony?  Is an engagement ring
        considered mandatory when you propose (as in the movies) or should
        I buy it for her one afterward?  Is a diamond "mandatory" on the ring
        or what are acceptable alternatives?
        \_ You are engaged from the time your intended says "Yes" until the
           time the minister/JP/etc. says "I now pronounce you man & wife."
           The only thing that's mandatory is a marriage license.  Rings are
           completely up to what you want, what she expects, and what you can
           afford.  For some people, that means a diamond is required - for
           others a diamond engagement ring would be seen as a total insult
           (religious prohibitions against gaudy jewelry, rich guy rubbing in
            just how much more money he has over poorer fiancee, etc) or a
           waste of cash (someone who values eating over stupid shiny rocks
           for instance, or who would rather save those thousands of $$$ to
           spend on the wedding/honeymoon/new home).
        \_ For people who care, a typical guideline is 2 months salary for the
           engagement ring.  My wife and I didn't care though, and we both
           agreed we'd like to use the money in other ways.  I proposed earlier
           than I was planning somewhat spontaneously, and so didn't even have a
           ring.  We picked it out together.  And today (Jan 6) is our 4th
           wedding anniversary.  Yay!  -emarkp
           \_ Pre-tax salary or after-tax?
                \_ I was told three months pre-tax.
                   \_ That "guideline" comes straight from the diamond industry.
                      \_ Ask Partha about his love for de Beers.
        \_ Most people I know who got married recently spent about 6K on
           their engagement ring. That gets you a nice 1+ carat ring. -ax
                \_ My wife was happy with a nice $250 ring sans diamond.
                   \_ Yep.  Save the money and honeymoon in Europe.
                \_ Mine was happy with a ~$450 one with tiny diamond.
           \_ My friend went with her sister to go shop for her engagement
              ring. Then they called up the boyfriend and told him which
              $5k ring to get.
                \_ It's impossible for anyone with a conscience to support
                   de Beers.  It's ridiculous for anyone with a brain to
                   pay thousands of dollars for a rock.  -tom
                   \_  You are SO unromantic tom and most of me agrees with
                       you.  The other part explains that the WHOLE POINT is
                       to spend a shitload of money on something that is
                       essentially worthless as a romantic/symbolic token of
                       irrational Love.  (boy, now i'm more sure it's dumb)-tom
                   \_ the difficulty comes in communicating this to the woman
                      in question
                      \_ The greater difficulty comes in not strangling her
                         when she says she has lost it.
                         (yes, it's REALLY lost, permenantly)
                          \_ Oh no!  What are you some kind of GIRL? who gives
                             a fuck if she lost a hunk of metal and carbon?
                             You didn't lose any more money than you had
                             already lost by buying it.
                         \_ If you're going to spend a dumptruck full of
                            money on the ring, would it be so tough to get
                            it insured?
                            \_ Silly me, I thought it was wasteful to spend
                               $500 a year on insurance, when I could trust
                               my wife to look after things.
                               I'm cured of that now.
                               I also have a greater appreciation for HSN.
                                \_ You are an asshole.
                                   \_ I suggest that he is trolling.  If not
                    he is an idiot as well as an asshole.  He can't possibly
                    think that she (assuming, and i don't, that he actually has
                    a wife...) actually lost something worth X thousand $$.
                    She lost a rock that would never be worth anything except
                    as a symbol, which, if he were a decent human being it
                    could have been in spades.  Being decent about something
                    like that can earn you as many points as wasting your money
                    on the damn thing in the first place.  The money Was wasted
                    BEFORE she lost the thing, A husband in this position could
                    get TWICE what he paid for.
        \_ it doesn't matter. YOU'LL BE SORRY!!! (to the newly weds)
        \_ "I'm Tom Shane.  You have a *friend* in the diamond business."