Berkeley CSUA MOTD:Entry 16219
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2025/05/24 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
5/24    

1999/8/1-2 [Computer/SW/Security, Computer/SW/Unix] UID:16219 Activity:very high
8/1     http://istpub.berkeley.edu:4201/bcc/Sept_Oct99/avc.students.html
        IS&T once again tries to catch up to what student groups have provided
        for the last 10 years, and only manages to see part of the picture.
        (Last time, they decided all students needed was e-mail and we got
         UCLink.  Just imagine how screwed up this new file server will be.)
         \_ soda [21] wc -l /etc/passwd
               2501 /etc/passwd
            Think of how disasterous that would be to provide 30,000
            traditional style login acounts on a single computer (not to
            mention how expensive the hard disk space would be). The fact
            is that most majors don't require a unix shell account but it
            would be nice for the common Berkeley student to have some unix
            experience.  Unfortunately costs and needs don't always coincide.
                \_  Utterly lame!  If i'm making $20+/hr being a paralegal
                    or a doctor I don't have the time or the inclination to
                    fiddle around with unix man pages.  I am more productive
                    using 1. an interface I'm used to (since I'm not a
                    programmer what do I care about software development) and
                    2. an interface that supports applications ALL MY
                    COLLEGUES IN _MY_ (not YOUR) FIELD USE.  I'd rather spend
                    my time ski-ing or outdoors than fiddling around with
                    .conf files.
                    \_ That's funny.  I have time to do my regular school
                       work, fiddle with .conf files, read the fucking man
                       pages, and go skiing.  And unix is VERY useful for
                       people not in the CS major.  Go ask the people at
                       LBL what they use for physics simulations.
                       \_ dear God, is the bigotry so deep within you that you
                          fail to see the point?  The point is that I AM NOT
                          YOU.  I DO NOT WANT TO BE LIKE YOU.  What if i
                          said I was a pre med student who spend time commuting
                          to various hospitals in the area?  That's more than
                          just regular school work.  Tell me, is unix helpful
                          in my anatomy class?  Is it useful for LabView?
                          is it useful in my philosophy class?  Is it useful
                          when I call my girlfriend up and see what time she'd
                          be ready to go see the opera?
                          Climb out of your cubicle, man.
                        \_ idiocy deleted.
                        \_ fascist nazi.  What gives you the right to delete
                           people's opinions at your whim?  What's next after
                           your ssh tactics?  rm -rf people you don't like?
                    my time with my friends or girlfriend than fiddling around
                    with .conf files. - Publius
                   \_ uh, so why do you care if people who are *not* idiots
                      have Unix shell access?  You can diddle around with
                      Netscape all you want, regardless.  -tom
                    \_ It's about the oppurtunity to do what you want.
                \_ Why use a single computer?  The OCF provided 12,000+ login
                        accounts 5 years ago on a cluster of 1989-era machines
                        (Motorola 68030 & 040 based apollos).  As for disk
                        space, that's what IS&T is proposing to do.
                \_ providing shell access to uclink4, for example, would
                   lower CPU usage (POP is very expensive) and support costs.
                   The support cost argument is bullshit; if you look at
                   the total cost picture, having shell access is much
                   cheaper.  What IST means when they say "it costs less"
                   is "it costs US less". -tom
                   \_ IS&T has a history of ignoring reality, tom.   you
                      should know that.
                   \_ Support costs go up when idiots start wanting to use
                      shells.
                \_ I would say, rather, that they ignore campus concerns in
                   favor of doing things which are convenient for them.  -tom
        \_ They should buy a NetApp.
           \_ NetApp's suck. EMC, dude.
        \_ lets take this to http://ucb.computing.announce (ucb.computing.discussion
           would be better but there is no such group ... yet) --jon
           \_ hence, mail root@agate
              \_ hence the "... yet" --jon
           \_ Okay, now lets take this to http://ucb.computing.discussion --jon
ERROR, url_link recursive (eces.Colorado.EDU/secure/mindterm2) 2025/05/24 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
5/24    

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istpub.berkeley.edu:4201/bcc/Sept_Oct99/avc.students.html
From the Associate Vice Chancellor New student computing service planned for this academic year Jack McCredie IST provides many services in support of the broad academic programs of our campus community. Such resources generally fall into two main categories -- general infrastructure supporting a broad range of information technology applications, and activities designed specifically to support UC Berkeley's academic programs. Examples in the first category include electronic mail, the campus network with more than 36,000 local ports, dial-up and wireless modems, interconnections to commercial Internet service providers, and research and education networks such as CalREN-2 and Internet2. Illustrative activities in the second category include several specially designed classrooms and drop-in labs used directly in the teaching process, support for course home pages on the Web, general computing accounts for hundreds of classes and thousands of students, and support for computer-based learning modules available directly over the network. Last August, the Commission on Campus Computing issued its report, and one of its recommendations was strongly supportive of the concept of persistent computing accounts for all students. Acting upon this recommendation, Chancellor Berdahl allocated start-up funding for the project as part of the UC Office of the President's Instructional Technology Initiative. During the past year, IST has been working with vendors and campus working groups to refine the original proposal, and to develop the infrastructure required to make this idea a reality. We believe that persistent student computer accounts will become a reality during this 1999-2000 academic year. Providing students with persistent computer accounts (accounts that can be used by students during their entire academic careers at Cal, in the same manner that students have the ability to have the same email addresses) has been an IST goal for a long time. Because of resource constraints, however, central computing accounts have historically been assigned to undergraduates only for the duration of a particular class for which they were needed. These short-term accounts do not provide for permanent storage of study materials and other digital information students accumulate as they progress in their academic work. The budgetary and technical challenges of providing over 30,000 traditional login-style accounts have been prohibitive. Not only hardware costs, but more importantly, technical support costs, have prevented IST from pursuing this objective. The support issue and its related problems, however, have been radically altered by the web revolution. The web protocol, the basis of most Internet computing, allows many complicated computing functions to be accomplished very simply. IST's current goal is to provide students with central disk space where they can store and retrieve files of any kind, and where they can publish information via the Web. This will not be a "full-service computer account" in the traditional sense, but a new, less costly, web-based service provided to every student. Requiring only a standard Internet browser, this service will provide the file storage and file management functions of uploading, downloading, copying, moving into different folders, and publishing to the Internet. Since no special desktop software will be needed, and most students are already very familiar with using browser functions, much of the training and ongoing technical support is eliminated by this service model. With no dependence on client software, this central, secure computer storage will be accessible from any networked computer at any time. The first phase of this service will be the creation of a pilot program in which a relatively small number of students participate in testing the software and providing feedback on the functionality of the new design. IST is planning to have this pilot service available during the fall, and then, if funding remains available, to roll it out to the entire student community next year. Information about the progress of this project will be made available to the campus as the supporting software is decided upon and more design elements are in place. IST is currently negotiating with several commercial vendors to determine which is able to meet the campus service specifications at the lowest costs.
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