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Here's what I put there - javascript:noThirdVoice() So if the IE user doesn't have the Third Voice Active X widget then the noThirdVoice function is executed and they are directed to the ThirdVoice not installed page. So what happens to the users with IE and the widget installed. They are left hanging around for 3 seconds until the meta refresh tag is called. Hello, Regarding the Third Voice product (from here on called TVP), I find it an excellent idea. Often, web sites are used to promote things in a one-way fashion - it is information designed to persuade one of some truth, veracity or reality. As such, a system which allows one to plug in and see what others think and to post your own comments, is needed to begin to get a comprehensive viewpoint about a web site and its products. Let us turn to the issues of Content disruption, Slander and Advertising. For the content disruption - people can choose to see the site without the TVP, it in no way disrupts the content. It is only when the user wishes to see what others have said that you look at the TVP's notes. The complaints you hear are from people who fear that their information (or what they wish other people would believe about them) will be challenged and subjected to essentially what amounts to a web peer review process. For the issue of Slander - the makers of the product are not responsible, they are merely the transmitter of another's comments. If a company wishes to test the legal grounds of forcing Third Voice to hand over the details of a single individual who made a slanderous comment against them to have that comment removed from the TVP's system - go ahead! For the issue of Advertising, as long as the TVP's advertising is within its own section of the screen it is perfectly legitimate. The TVP is in its early days yet, for example, how will the system handle sites whose contents are generated dynamically a la WebObjects? And how about bundling this plug-in into all shipping browsers (and on different platforms)? It offers potential as a mechanism providing an easy to use system for us to be lifted free of a web in which information flow is one ways. The TVP provides a mechanism to make providers of information and services are held accountable to what they write and advertise. Perhaps the web will not be such a wild west for misinformation after all. As the webmaster for a school district, I have to be very aware of possible abuses of our web site and network resources in general. The premise of Third Voice, to allow people to comment on any and all sites, would be fine if either 1) a server could block the notes or 2) a webmaster could give access rights to people who are allowed comments. However, neither of those options exist, which is a serious problem. Imagine a kid in a computer lab who installs the plugin, posts inappropriate or profane information to the note, and another student or teacher spots it? Imagine an even worse scenario, where a parent sees it at home. The blame inevitably falls on the administrator (me), even though I had absolutely no part in it and could do nothing about it. I'm all for free speech, but only when I have a choice about whether or not I want to hear it. MacNN reader and educator >entire page is loaded to the receiver's computer. A normal and essential part of viewing a web site is making a copy of the HTML code and displaying the resulting site on screen. If a webmaster makes a page freely downloadable on the Internet, then s/he has given up control over what someone does with that page on their own computer. All that Third Voice does is change the way a browser displays a particular web page. The analogy of writing in a library book or posting notes in an art museum is wrong, because in those cases you do not own the book or artwork. Authors and artists don't have to sell to you if they don't like what you intend to do with it, but once they sell then you can do what you want. Surely TV stations do not like the fact that people can tape TV shows and then fast forward through the advertisements. But TV stations have no control over what people who receive the signal do with it, provided they do not re-broadcast or use it in a public exhibition. You can even edit out the commercials and create a personal, commercial free library of your favorite shows. Or how about taking CDs that you own and burning a new CD that only includes the songs you like. Again, this is perfectly legal (assuming you own the CDs and the result is for personal use). You can even take a song and manipulate it on a computer and listen to the result, if you choose. If the effort to ban Third Voice succeeds, then think of the implications. Would you then ban VCRs or video/audio editing equipment? In the web domain, what about services that translate web sites into other languages? It translates a Windows program on-the-fly into Power PC code. It's not much of a stretch to put this in the same category as Third Voice. Certainly, Third Voice should be responsive to complains about inappropriate content and should provide ways for webmaster to see annotations on their sites without the plugin. Larry I was reading some of the comments on your web page about third voice. Ultimately, this feature and some others (notably ad-blocking) are basically a power play of Users vs. Web sites, in general, are against things that degrade their revenue or alter the site's appearance. Owners of web sites often make the argument that these technologies threaten the very basis of ad-supported web sites. That may be true if these technologies were included or built-into the leading web-browsers, but it seems unlikely in the current environment. Obviously, those running web sites have their own self-interests to protect, and should not be afraid to state that. But this is not a right/ wrong issue, it's a power issue. It seems like a neat idea, but too much of a good thing is bad. On the other hand, notes attached to individual artciles could be very insightful. I know many sites set up message boards for this purpose, but there is a problem with most of these boards. If websites designed their own message boards better, the market for this software would quickly evaporate. I suggest you take the lead in providing the best message boards, even at the expense of ad-revenue. Until web-sites start catering more to their viewers and less to the number of ad-impressions, technologies like this will proliferate. MacNN reader Letter to Third Voice I discovered your site today through a link on the Mac OS Rumors site. This was the first I had heard of Third Voice, an irony you may want to consider carefully in your campaign. I am appalled at the arguments you present on your site, and your current methodology for addressing the problem you perceive. Therefore, I'm writing to suggest better ways to discourage use of the Third Voice service in particular, even though I am unsympathetic to your current appeals on the subjects of "URL ownership", "derivative works", and web site inviolability. I haven't attempted to use the Third Voice service myself, because some of the Terms of Service conditions: User grants Third Voice the right to disclose to third parties certain User Information or any other information about User's use of the Service in the aggregate. Such disclosures will exclude User's name, mailing address, email address, and account, unless User expressly directs Third Voice, or any other person User may specifically designate, to disclose such information or unless Third Voice is required to disclose such information by any applicable law or legal process served on Third Voice. When these and other terms of the agreement are considered along with the basic operation of the Third Voice plugin, it seems clear that Third Voice plans to support itself through the sale of marketing information to web site developers and web advertisers. In addition to the demographic information the user gives when applying, Third Voice gets a precise trace of URLS visited by the user, across any and all sites they visit with the Third Voice plugin enabled. That is also the sort of privacy concern that ca...
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