4/24    Ok, in market for new car.  Prius or Insight?
        \_ Two words: "peak oil"
        \_ There were some Edmunds advisors I saw a while back on TV who
           said that that the demand for hybrids is still too high and
           that if you're worried about fuel economy, you should invest
           in a high mileage non-hybrid vehicle instead. To my surprise,
           he suggested a BMW 3-series. But I agree. The money you save
                          \_ M3 CSL!!!111  Only decent BMW... -John
           from a hybrid over some other high-mileage vehicle as a result
           of a lower gas bill probably won't offset the premium you will
           pay on a hybrid. I'd wait for hybrid supply/demand to go up.
           \_ Hybrid is not worth it in terms of gas savings, but as a BMW
              owner I think the mileage is atrocious. I got better mileage
              on the 8 cylinder Jaguar I rented. BMW is not high mileage.
              \_ I just got back from Germany and after some city driving
                 and Autobahn driving (I was going 90-135MPH most of the
                 time) I was averaging 25MPG and this was with the 5-speed.
                 The 6-speed transmission offers a taller overdrive gear
                 which probably would have pushed the fuel economy up
                 (particularly at the speeds I was traveling at).
                 \_ Is 25 mpg considered high? I probably get something
                    like 22 mpg, but there's a lot of stop-and-go. It sure
                    ain't my Honda or my Nissan in terms of mileage.
                    \_ When you're going 90MPH+, yes 25MPG is high. Wind
                       resistance goes up drastically when you travel at
                       those speeds.
                    \_ 25mpg is average at best for a normal-sized car.  It's
                       good mileage for a SUV, though.
        \_ Mostly irrelevant I'm sure, but my friend's 2002 Prius was hit in
           a parking lot.  It's a $3000 repair, and she's out of a car for 3
           weeks waiting for the parts to ship from Japan.
        \_ Used.
        \_ Honda Civic Hybrid is a better choice.
        \_ RIDE BIKE!
           \_ Oh just go and die will you.
        \_ 2004 Prius is a better choice.
           \_ Toyota gives "false" estimates for its MPG.  Nowhere close to
              what is advertised.
              \_ Why do you believe this?
                 \_ I know someone with a Prius, he only gets 40-45 MPG, not
                    60.  -tom
                    \_ does he have any twink points?
                    \_ 2003 or 2004 Prius?  The 2004 improved on fuel economy,
                       and the web site says "55 mpg".
                       \_ http://www.kanai.net/weblog/archives/001506.html
                          Old one advertised 48 overall.
        \_ Forget hybrids.  Get Civic HX (35/40 mpg), no need to replace
           batteries after ~10 years.  Seriously, the fuel savings you get
           on hybrids don't really safe the environment more than driving
           something like the HX.  Good maintenance, responsible long-term
           ownership is far more important.
        \_ Consider buying a VW Jetta with a diesel engine (which, beside the
           related VW Golf TDI, is the only diesel car on the US marker I think)
        \_ Does anyone really get the rated MPG?  I doubt it since no one drives
           exactly the same way the EPA drives.