3/22    Blow me, MOTD censor dickwit.  I posted a perefctly "legit" link,
        not that it's your job to judge.  As I said, cool shit:
        http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3556099.stm   -John
        \_ Blind, paralyzed 67 year old man, confined to a wheelchair,
           assassinated by missles fired from a helicopter. Reason:
           he was a threat to Israel's security.
           \_ Why didn't Israel just arrest him?
              \_ They were trolling the motd.
           \_ Oooh, good troll.  No bites, though, troll harder!
        \_ then why you kept erasing my post?
        \_ John, killing him is not going to solve the problem.  Elimate
           Hamas is not going to resolve the problem.  You do need to carry
           out genocide on Palestinian people, reduce their population to
           insignificant number (similiar to the native American in USA) to
           solve that problem... if you want to solve th problem using
           violence.
           \_ "The problem" is intractable.  There is no solution that doesn't
              involve the destruction of Israel or moving a few million Arabs
              from Gaza and the WB into other Arab countries that don't want
              the black sheep of Islam.
              \_ Why stop at Gaza and the WB? Why is that going to be enough?
                 There will be no peace for Israel until every living Arab
                 is exterminated.
                 \_ No cookie.  Sorry.  Maybe you'll catch me in a foul mood
                    some other time and I'll feed you then.  I just had a 3
                    hour lunch so you're not getting fed today.
        \_ Wow, for a bunch peace loving people who just want equal rights
           the Palestinians sure were broken up about the death of that
           mass murderer...
           \_ He incited violence.  He didn't murder anyone.  While inciting
              violence is a crime.  It's nothing near being a capital offence.
              The fact that Israel is assassinating people for their political
              ranting shows that neither side has any moral legitimacy in this
              conflict.
              \_ so did Hitler, he just ordered people killed
              \_ That's all fine and dandy in your highly controlled and very
                 law and order western society.  This is a war, not a civil
                 disobedience issue.  Do you think we should send the FBI to
                 arrest bin Laden, too?  Some people are beyond the law
                 especially in places where there is no law.  He was the law.
                 \_ They did arrest him and put him in prison for 8 years.
                    Then they let him go for some reason.  Why did they
                    release him if he's so dangerous?
                    \_ Because Israel is still a law abiding western society
                       and the current 'war' hadn't started yet.  It was a time
                       of relative quiet and the palestinians hadn't stuck the
                       knife in yet.
           \_ Hamas is a social organization that brings food to the poor,
              educates children, provides jobs to the jobless and brings hope
              to the hopeless in a war torn area in a fight the people didn't
              ask for.  The man is a martyr and a victim.  How can you not see
              the good that Hamas does for the people?  The poor guy was in a
              wheel chair?  How could he be responsible for anyone's death?
              This was an unjustified, cowardly act, very unlikely to achieve
              peace in the area and very very bad news for the Middle East
              peace process.  The only way to stop the violence is for the
              Israelis to stop killing Palestinian children, women, and old
              crippled men with their American build missiles and leave *all*
              of the Palestinian territories.  We must go back to the pre-1947
              lines.  Violence only begets violence, so the next time a bunch
              of Israeli teens get killed at a pizza parlor, disco, or a
              university cafeteria by a Palestinian martyr, they should know
              they've brought this upon themselves.  For every Palestinian
              victim of Israeli aggression and illegal occupation there should
              be a thousand Israeli children killed on buses, in school and out
              on the town.  Once the Jews are driven into the sea, there shall
              finally be peace in the Middle East and then we can look to
              bringing the same peace to Europe, starting with France and
              Spain.
                \_ Yassin has stated in several interviews that he supports
                   suicide attacks on Israeli civilians.  Here's one with
                   Die Welt:
                   http://tinyurl.com/24t5m  and one with the BBC:
                   http://tinyurl.com/2by97   -John
                   \_ It's kinda disturbing when the greatest dreams
                      parents can think of for their children is to
                      become human bombs.
                      \_ Golda Meir, "we will have peace when palestinian
                         mothers love their children more than they hate Jews."
                \_ thanks for illustrating what the attitude problem is.
                   You are blind.  One does not need to build a bomb with
                   his own hands to be responsible for leading others to do
                   the actual work.  You say 'violence begets violence', but
                   yet you do not equally condemn the Palestinians for killing.
                   Almost every cease fire, or peace accord, is broken by yet
                   another suicide bomber, who believes there should be no
                   negotiation, just unilateral withdrawl.  For every one, you
                   claim blood of a thousand.  Where is the equality in that?
                   With that statement, you imply a belief in the superiority
                   of one group over another.  You'd fit well alongside the
                   Nazis. I'm all for a separate Palestinian state, and I
                   dislike a lot of Israel's actions and responses, but I
                   can't say the Palestinians aren't part of the problem
                   either.
                   \_ I call Godwin's Law on you.
                   \_ Pay attention to the next cease fire. It will probably
                      be broken by an Isreali attack, just like the last one
                      was. Sharon is no more interested in peace than Hamas is.
                      \_ No, pay attention to the past.  Once you see who
                         started the last few years worth of terrorism and
                         upped the ante with suicide bombers you'll start to
                         understand why the Israelis do what they do.  If you
                         were allowed to settle the issue, what would you do?
                         Tell Israel to go back to pre-67 borders?  Close all
                         the check points and give free and open access to the
                         entire country to every Palestinian?
                         \_ On the other hand, Israel has been continously
                            creating new settlements settling Joos from
                            all over the world coming back to Israel on
                            Palestinian land.
                            \_ I disagree with the current settlement policy,
                               however that is not the root cause of the arabs
                               sending their own children into civilian crowds
                               wearing bombs.
                   \_ I'm pretty sure that was satire man.
                      \_ Yeah.  He had me going up until that disco line.
                         \_ disco?  that was the tip off?  so you're unaware
                            of how many Israeli teens were killed in the last
                            2-3 years in Israeli discos? sigh...like pearls....
                            \_ No, silly boy, the tip off was the part where
                               the author said that Israeli teens getting
                               blown up in discos should realize that they'd
                               brought it upon themselves.  Of course, you'd
                               rather curse the darkness than light a candle,
                               I understand why you jumped to that conclusion.
                      \_ Problem is, there are people who honestly think this
        \_ there was a time when Muslim world are the heaven for Jews who
           are escaping prosecution from Christian church.  I wonder how
           many people remember that.
           \_ was that before or after mass conversions to Islam by the sword?
              \_ after _and_ before.  after the North African conversion by
                 the sword and before the fanatics came to power in Iberia.
                 \_ so the ones who didn't get killed or forced to convert
                    found Islam a haven of open mindedness?  cool.
                    \_ willful child. they mostly emigrated to Islamic
                       kingdoms after the mass conversions and before the
                       rise of the fanatics.  many of them immigrated when the
                       latter came to power.
                       \_ When was this period "before the rise of fanatics"?
                          The whole religion started on day one that way.
                          \_ Nice and glib, but you're completely ignoring the
                             Islamic Renaissance of the late first Milennium.
                             Go visit a place called a "library" and read some
                             interesting things called "books" before posting
                             anything else.
                             \_ Islamic Renaissance? hahaha. they are still
                                living in the dark ages twink
                                \_ Are you trying to look stupid?
                                   \_ No, he's accurate and the truth hurts.
                                      The IR is a period of time they were
                                      advancing faster than Europe in terms of
                                      technology and math but they were still
                                      religious fanatics, primitives, and
                                      incredibly barbaric by our western
                                      standards today.  They never left the
                                      middle ages.  They still whine about
                                      500+ year 'transgressions' by countries
                                      and people that don't even exist anymore.
                                      \_ 500+ years?  That's nothing.  Jews
                                         claim right to a land they left
                                         2000 years ago.
                    \_ I am not sure that "open mindedness" is the right
                       word, but Jews were treated better in the Ottoman
                       Empire than in Christian Europe.
                       \_ The word you are looking for is 'expediency.'
                          The Ottomans knew that tolerance was the only way
                          to run a multi-ethnic, multi-religious, multi-
                          cultural state (which included that haven of
                          tranquility, the Balkans). -- ilyas
                          \_ Is it bad to be tolerant for the sake of
                             expediency?  Is Putin's being tough a stance
                             of principle?
                             \_ I wasn't making a value judgement.  Also,
                                you can't argue with results. -- ilyas
                                \_ how does the ottomans compare
                                   with the russians on their treatment
                                   of jews historically?
                                   \_ The jews were always persecuted in
                                      Russia (Czarist and Communist).
                                      The word 'pogrom' is a Russian word.
                                      Email me for a longer account if you
                                      are interested. -- ilyas
                          \_ they did try to genocide the christian
                             armenians though.
                             \_ Your point is valid, but your use of the word
                                is not.  s/genocide/commit genocide against/
                                \_ I realize that, but I think we should
                                   allow it to be used as a verb or invent
                                   a verb version.  maybe genocize.
                                   ethnically cleanse is awkward,
                                   exterminate is possible but not specific
                                   enough.  "commit genocide against" is
                                   too long, and I am lazy.
                                   \_ You want a verb form of a word made up
                                      to evoke moral outrage and loathing
                                      because the alternatives are too long
                                      and you are lazy?  This truly is the
                                      end of the Roman Empire.
                                      \_ what's the big deal?  this happens
                                         all the time.  eg. "google" is
                                         now used as a verb.
                                         \_ The big deal is that google is not
                                            synonymous with death and misery.
                                            Genocide is.
                                            \_ I don't see the relevancy
                                               of "death and misery" to
                                               the argument.