Berkeley CSUA MOTD:Entry 12782
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2025/07/09 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
7/9     

2004/3/21-22 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:12782 Activity:insanely high
3/19    Rumsfeld 'wanted to bomb Iraq' after 9/11
        http://csua.org/u/6iv
        'But Mr Clarke, who is expected to testify on Tuesday before a federal
        panel reviewing the attacks, said Mr Rumsfeld complained in the meeting
        that "there aren't any good targets in Afghanistan and there are lots
        of good targets in Iraq." A spokesman for Mr Rumsfeld last night said
        he could not comment immediately."'
        \_ tell me why would the UN want to give up its exploitation of
        making millions off Saddam and the Oil for Food program?
        what incentive for the UN to get rid of IRAQ's saddam when they
        are making millions. You want nothing more than to put the
                \_ Okay Mr. Smarty Pants whay was your strategy for
        Iraqi people back under oppression so that the UN can make millions
        more off the poor Iraqi people exploiting the Oil for Food program.
        \_ lovely
        \_ What's wrong with this, liberal?
           \_ What's wrong? That Dubya and Co. tried to use the national
              tragedy to push their own agendas?
                \_ Okay Mr. Smarty Pants what was your strategy for
                \_ Okay Mr. Smarty Pants whay was your strategy for
                   dealing with terror and cleaning up the cesspool of
                   the Middle East; this is incumbent on those who
                   criticise. No cogent alternative was ever
                   \_ how about dealing with Israeli/Palestine issue
                      directly and more even-handedly?
                   \_ Um, how about the simple observation that Iraq didn't
                      have any involvement at all in Al Qaeda or the WTC?
                      Bombing Iraq as a response to that is asinine.
                      \_ Um, you are plain wrong. Iraq actually did (and
                         still does) have ties with Al Qaeda. Soldiers
                         during the war actually came across a number of
                         terrorist training camps during the war. This is
                         pretty well documented.
                         \_ Show me the documents so I can laugh at them.
                            I never saw them. I did see things about camps
                            in Saudi Arabia.
                   \_ There were plenty of cogent alternatives advocated.
                      Hussain's neighbors didn't consider him a threat.
                      Our own analyists didn't consider him a threat.
                      Hussain was not connected to radical Islamists.
                      It was and remains quite clear that invading Iraq
                      had nothing to do with dealing with terror.
                      \_ And what exactly were those alternatives? Was it to
                         continue to sit on our hands while Iraq continued
                         to violate UN rules and regulations? Do you really
                         believe the UN would have actually done something
                         about the problem? Are you that naive? Do you have
                         no sense of history?
                      \_ Hussein's neighbors didn't consider him a threat
                         *to them*.  I'm not one of his neighbors and I
                         doubt you are/were either.  Which of 'our own
                         analysts' are you refering to?  And yes there are
                         documents out there that show the national fascists
                         and Islamic fascists had considered working together.
                         Since our intel was so poor due to cuts in the 90s
                         we can't really know what was going on back then.
                         The best way to deal with terror is to overthrow the
                         socialist fascists that run the middle east and
                         replace them with non-Islamic democracies that won't
                               \_ I can't believe you have such simplistic
                                  view of the world.  If you actually
                                  read 18-19th century, you might find that
                                  much of the africa was conquered by the
                                  western democracies.  How about Britian's
                                  Opium War against China?  How about French's
                                  conquest of Indochina and Algeria?
                                  The truth is, Democracy, set by western
                                  europe and Americans, are interwined with
                                  Imperialism.  Countries fell victim of
                                  imperialism (including China, numerous
                                  of southeast asian nations, and much of the
                                  middleeast) tend to equate imperalism and
                                  democracy.  When they look for ways to
                                  modernize themselves, they tend to look for
                                  anything but imperalism related ideals.
                                  Many choose communism (eg N. Korea, Vietnam,
                                  and to some extent, China), many choose
                                  religious fundamentalism for solution.
                         put up with that shit.  Only then will the Arab
                         people advance and terrorism fade.  It's people like
                         you who want to keep the Arab people down who create
                         and foster future generations of terrorists.
                         \_ The "if only everyone had government structure
                            X (which just happens to be the same structure
                            I live under), then there would be no more
                            conflict" argument goes back the beginning of
                            time. I see no particular reason to think that
                            this time, but truly, the argument is right.
                            \_ It's a well-documented historical fact that
                               democracies rarely, if ever, fight each other.
                               Democracy does promote peace, the problem is
                               establishing democracy in a society which has
                               never seen it before.  Look how well it worked
                               in Russia...  -- ilyas
                               \_ Or China.  The primary arrogance of American
                                  foreign policy since the beginning of time
                                  is to simply assume as axiomatic that all
                                  people want and need Democracy, and that all
                                  governments are in some way drawn towards
                                  this conclusion as a natural matter of
                                  course.
                                  \_ Those arrogant optimistic Americans.
                                     A pox on them. -- ilyas
                            \_ you erase my post, I erase yours
                   advocated.
2025/07/09 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
7/9     

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2011/11/6-30 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:54212 Activity:nil
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        \_ Bad conservatives. You should never change your mind, and you
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2011/2/16-4/20 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:54041 Activity:nil
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        http://www.csua.org/u/sl0 (news.yahoo.com)
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2010/9/26-30 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:53966 Activity:nil
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2010/7/20-8/11 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:53889 Activity:low
7/20    Is jblack still on? What about the rest of the pro-war cheerleaders?
        http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100720/ap_on_re_eu/eu_britain_iraq_inquiry
        \_ War is fought for the glory of generals and the economics of the
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2010/2/22-3/30 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:53722 Activity:nil
2/20    Ok serious question, NOT political.  This is straight up procedural.
        Has it been declared that we didn't find WMD in iraq? (think so).
        So why did we go into iraq (what was the gain), and if nobody really
        knows, why is nobody looking for the reason?
        \_ Political stability, military strategy (Iran), and to prevent
           Saddam from financing terrorism.
	...
Cache (792 bytes)
csua.org/u/6iv -> news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/story.jsp?story=503437
Home > News > World > Americas Across the site Iraq, one year on Official: UK would fail to cope with major terror attack Iraq war chest will be empty by July Rumsfeld wanted to bomb Iraq after 9/11 One year on, and still the hard core march the world over Attack is inevitable, say the police. Brothers climb Big Ben tower and spark security review Leading article: One year on John Rentoul: We will make our peace with Blair Ziauddin Sardar: Through Muslim eyes Ken Loach: Was it futile to march? Rumsfeld wanted to bomb Iraq after 9/11 By Ted Bridis in Washington 21 March 2004 Donald Rumsfeld, the US Secretary of Defence, urged President Bush to consider bombing Iraq almost immediately after the 11 September 2001 terrorist attacks on New York and Washington, says a former senior aide.