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| 5/25 |
| 2004/3/18 [Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:12740 Activity:low |
3/18 Here's one we can probably all agree is bad. Labour government in UK
wants to bill wrongfully accused criminals for time spent in prison:
http://www.sundayherald.com/40592
\_ I think Terry Gilliam already thought of that one. In "Brazil"
the bill was for "Information Retrieval Charges." In the director's
cut he has to negotiate a loan to pay for his own torture. -brain
\_ It's worse than that-- it looks like they've actually sent the bills
out and expect payment, and they're defending themselves in some
sort of class action suit about the matter.
\_ Still better than making your family pay for the bullet that
executes you.
\_ Um, what the hell are you talking about?
\_ It's a china reference
\_ Sounds like a great idea if the person can countersue for false
imprisonment damages. Of course, that will wipe out every job
except lawyers and judges...
\_ If you read the article, they pay for false imprisonment, but it
is paid in installments. The "defered living expenses" are due
up front, and the gov't charges a whopping 23% interest.
\_ That 23% interest is on the advanced payment of the
settlement, not the deferred living expenses.
\_ Come now, they were arrested, weren't they? They must have been
guilty of something. Only serves them right to pay for it.
\_ And if it weren't for those damn Democratic trial lawyers,
the police could have metered out the justice they deserved.
\_ ITYM "meted"
I hate those Democratic trial lawyers. Why should criminals
have any rights anyway? Just let the police shoot them all.
\_ Convicted criminals have damaged society. They owe society a debt.
Making them pay for part of the debt in cash restitution isn't at
all shocking. There are plenty of cases all over the world both
modern and historic where someone gets jail time plus a fine. Big
deal. boo hoo.
\_ The only debt I can see that the criminal owes society is the
overhead for his trial and incarceration. The criminal owes
_the victim_. And yes, I think it's perfectly ok to make
the criminal pay for his execution and grave. Who else should
pay for it? -- ilyas
\_ No, they have a debt to society as a whole as well as the
victim because their trial, police, prisons, and the
general drag on society criminals cause through fear,
waste, and inefficiencies costs all of us every day. I
would think a good libertarian could see that.
\_ Yes... a good libertarian did. He called it 'overhead,'
I think. Although this 'drag' on society you speak of
is getting a little too abstract for me. You charge
people for specific things they did wrong. -- ilyas
\_ I know you're intentionally being inflammatory
and retarded but the people in jail in the original
article were later declared innocents by the courts.
the british mps are just trying to be as mean as possible
to potential IRA supporters, they weren't going to
get their votes anyway.
\_ I don't think I am being either. The poster below is
right, I am not really talking about this particular case.
I am addressing the common misconception that (actual)
criminals owe a 'debt to society.' I think that's
silly. -- ilyas
\_ I guess they would in crimes that aren't against some
particular person, like espionage, traffic violations,
tax evasion, gambling, prostitution, possession of
illegal firearms, etc.
\_ That's true. -- ilyas
\_ No, even crimes against individuals cost us all.
The simplest example: a criminal murders someone.
Suing the criminal for damages or even executing
them will not bring that person back and the rest
of us have lost out on the benefits of having that
person here. A children may have lost a parent,
fellow co-workers may have to work harder, some
brilliant invention may not be made, and their
last purchase is their own coffin from their
estate. Crime hurts society. Criminals owe all
of us for their crimes.
\_ Why don't you guys start your own thread if you want to talk
about this subject? The URL was about the *wrongfully
accused*.
\_ What are you, the thread police? -- ilyas
\_ Citizen, the computer is your friend. The computer
tells you what to do. Disobeying the computer is
evidence of communism and treason. Are you a
communist traitor?
\_ In Soviet Russia, topic changes YOU!
\_ OP was talking about the wrongfully accused. How'd you come up
with this response to that?
\_ OP was talking about the wrongfully accused. How'd you come up with
this response to that?
\_ GARRIAGE!
\_ What are you smoking? The wrongfully accused owes society
even more!
\_ Easily. It's the motd. I didn't like his topic so I'm
making my own. |
| 5/25 |
|
| www.sundayherald.com/40592 Thatll be 80,000 please Blunkett charges miscarriage of justice victims food and lodgings By Neil Mackay , Home Affairs Editor WHAT do you give someone whos been proved innocent after spending the best part of their life behind bars, wrongfully convicted of a crime they didnt commit? Well, if youre David Blunkett, the Labour Home Secretary, the choice is simple: you give them a big, fat bill for the cost of board and lodgings for the time they spent freeloading at Her Majestys Pleasure in British prisons. On Tuesday, Blunkett will fight in the Royal Courts of Justice in London for the right to charge victims of miscarriages of justice more than 3000 for every year they spent in jail while wrongly convicted. The logic is that the innocent man shouldnt have been in prison eating free porridge and sleeping for nothing under regulation grey blankets. Blunketts fight has been described as outrageous, morally repugnant and the sickest of sick jokes, but his spokesmen in the Home Office say its a completely reasonable course of action as the innocent men and women would have spent the money anyway on food and lodgings if they werent in prison. He spent 16 years behind bars for the 1974 Birmingham pub bombings by the IRA. Hill now lives on a farm with his wife and children near Beith in Scotland. He has been charged 50,000 for living expenses by the Home Office. It wasnt until two years ago that Hill was finally awarded 960,000 in compensation. However, during the years since his release, while waiting for the pay-out, the government had given him advances of around 300,000. When his compensation came through, the 300,000 was taken back along with interest on the interim payments charged at 23 that cost him a further 70,000. I try and tell people about being charged for bed and board in jail and they cant believe it. When I left prison I was given no training for freedom no counselling or psychological preparation. To charge me for the food I ate and the cell I slept in is almost as big an injustice as fitting me up in the first place. While I was in prison, my family lost their home, yet they get no compensation. Its like being kicked in the head when someone has beat you already. I have to put up with this, yet there has not been one police officer convicted of fitting people up. The Home Office had no shortage of money to keep me in jail or to run a charade of a trial. Nevertheless, when it comes to paying out compensation for ruining my life they happily rip me to shreds. Hill is not leading the legal action against the government instead he has handed the baton to another high-profile victim of miscarriage of justice: Mike OBrien. OBrien spent 10 years in jail wrongly convicted of killing a Cardiff newsagent. His baby daughter died while he was in prison and he was charged 37,500 by the Home Office for his time behind bars. Hill said he cannot lead the legal fight as the Birmingham Six have fought every legal action together, but now three of them are over 70 and Hill believes it is too much to ask them to join him in taking on the government yet again. He said he was also worried about the compensation payments for the other members of the Birmingham Six being affected if they joined him in court against the government. The establishment hate me and people like me as we proved them wrong, he said. OBrien took the Home Office to court last March and won, but Blunkett appealed the decision. On Tuesday, the rights and wrongs of the government policy will be decided at the Royal Courts. OBrien said: Morally, the position of the government is just outrageous. It shows total contempt for the victims of miscarriages of justice. I really believe if we win the appeal this week, the government is evil enough to take me to the House of Lords. I really think this is personal as far as the government is concerned. But I am confident that we will win as the law and morality are on our side. Vincent Hickey, one of the Bridgewater Four who was wrongly convicted for killing a paperboy, was charged 60,000 for the 17 years he spent in jail. He said: If I had known this I would have stayed on hunger-strike longer, that way I would have had a smaller bill. John McManus, of the Scottish Miscarriage of Justice Organisation, said: This is reprehensible. How can we call ourselves a democratic, civilised society when our government is acting like this? Only a sick mind could have invented this policy, yet the government is fighting to retain the right to act like this. They seem to want to punish people for having the audacity to be innocent. The SNPs shadow justice minister, Nicola Sturgeon, said: This is outrageous. It is another assault by Blunkett on the rule of law and on civil liberties. They were wrongly convicted, and to charge them for it beggars belief. The Home Office said an independent assessor appointed by the Home Secretary takes into acccount the range of costs the prisoner might have incurred had they not been imprisoned. The spokes man said the assessor was right to do this, adding: Morally, this is reasonable and appropriate. I was a hostage, now they are billing me ROBERT Brown was just a 19-year-old from Glasgow when he was jailed for life for murdering a woman called Annie Walsh in Manchester in 1977. He served 25 years before he was finally freed in 2002, when the courts ruled him innocent of the crime. He is now facing a bill of around 80,000 for the living expenses he cost the state. An interim payment he was given pending his full compensation offer is exhausted; |