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| 5/24 |
| 2004/3/14-15 [Reference/Religion] UID:12658 Activity:high |
3/14 To the fellow who believes Mormons are not Christian, and wonders
why Mormons believe they are: I believe we are having a problem
of defintion. So, I will seek to define the word Christian. The
first definition on http://www.dictionary.com Christian: "Professing
belief in Jesus as Christ or following the religion based on the
life and teachings of Jesus." By this definition, Mormons are
obviously Christian. Since this is the widely accepted
definition of Christian, Mormons will argue that they are Christian.
Apparently you have a different definition, I would like to know
what it is. -jrleek
\_ Preposterous. Islam believes that Jesus existed and was a prophet.
I doubt any Muslim would call themselves Christians. Your
thinking fails. Also, religion is a complex, messy subject.
You can't simply whip out an internet dictionary and
try to "define" Christianity. You should cease attempting
to define things you know little or nothing about. -- williamc
\_ in the Mormon religion, who is Jesus Christ? And who is God?
\_ I'm not sure I follow your question.
\_ Well, it says "following the religion based on...". This religion
is pretty well established in its various forms. Mormons add a
large other set of religious stuff, incidentally not unlike Islam
in my view. So there it is. I'm not a Christian btw.
\_ Fine, and it's not like I haven't noticed the similarity
myself. But we don't believe Christ was just another
prophet. He is/was the son of God, and out connection to
the father. Our church is based on his teachings. The
additions are simply as restoration of what was lost, not
new additions.
\_ Christians believe that Jesus *was* God. This is a
fundamental tenet that Mormons reject.
\_ Not "God", "God the Son". Very important.
\_ This has been the basis of "heresy" from the Church
in many forms. Some say God the Son, some say Son
of God, some say God as Son, and some say Son
become God.
\_ They are new additions to the religion. No other
Christians accept them. None. Only Mormons. This makes
Mormons unique. It's not like a denomination. It's an
entirely new religion. Someone else pointed out how
Christianity and Judaism and Islam are related. In the
same way Mormons are related to Christianity, but they
are not Christians. They have fundamental teachings and
beliefs that Christianity rejects. Here is one web site
to read, but there are others. The definition you use is
too broad, because the "life and teachings of Jesus" are
at the center of the debate:
http://www.reachouttrust.org/regulars/articles/lds/lds01.htm
\_ You just don't get it. The "new" things are those that
were there in the first place, but lost in the translation.
JS rediscovered them. In a sense, only the Mormons are
complete, whole christians. The other ones are missing
parts.
\_ Not to meantion, this link is wrong in many respects.
It is full of red herrings and non-cannon (and wrong)
references. Not to meantion as far as I can tell
the intro has nothing to do with the body
or conclusion. This debate is stupid anyway.
There are equally huge differences between say,
Catholics and 7th day Adventists. Are Mormons unique?
Of course. Are Mormons Christian? Of course. I still
want to see your definition of what makes a religion
Christian. Does it have to accept the Niciean creed?
Does it have to be logically consistant? What?
-jrleek
\_ Simply that they don't add a bunch of *new* holy dogma,
certainly not to the point that they add a whole new
holy book. I'd say no re: nicene creed, as that
involves interpretation and church structure.
\_ More to the point, do you consider the Gnostics to be
Christians? If you do, then the Mormons are also
Christians. If not, then just about anyone not Catholic
doesn't count as a Christian.
\_ Well I'd say Gnosticism may be different enough so as to
not be what is called Christianity. If history had been
different and Gnosticism spread everywhere then perhaps
that is what we'd call Christian. But it didn't. |
| 5/24 |
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| www.reachouttrust.org/regulars/articles/lds/lds01.htm TEN REASONS WHY WE BELIEVE THAT MORMONS ARE NOT CHRISTIANS Mormons would find the assertion made above unacceptable since they regard their church to be the restoration of true New Testament Christianity and their faith as fundamentally Christian. We respect the fact that Mormons hold this view of themselves and their church. However, for any claim to adhere to a particular faith to be meaningful there must surely be some fundamentals that we accept as basic to that faith. For instance, someone claiming to be a Muslim would not seem to be making a credible claim if they denied the first of the five pillars, or fundamental tenets of Islam, "There is only one God and Muhammad is his prophet". To claim to be a Mormon, but deny the Divine origin and authenticity of the Book of Mormon as Scripture would be equally untenable. In the case of Christianity it would be the facts surrounding Jesus Christ and what He and his immediate followers taught that would be the test. Yet, there are clear statements and teachings in the writings of the Latter-day Saints that show that, from an Evangelical perspective, as well as from the point of view of most established Christian traditions, these fundamental Biblical tenets are not in Mormonism. To reiterate, this does not mean that Mormons are not genuine or honest in their claims. However, it is possible for people to 'believe' themselves to be all sorts of things. We must measure such claims against some objective, recognised and trustworthy standard. For the Evangelical believer that standard is the Bible, what it says about the Christian believer, and about Christianity's founder. The statement on our web page indicates that Mormons would not agree with this statement. However to claim to be a Christian means that we accept certain basic facts concerning Jesus Christ and what He taught. Yet, there are clear statements and teachings in the writings of the Latter-Day Saints that show that these fundamental tenets are not in Mormonism. Having studied carefully the claims of Mormonism, here are our ten reasons. The Jesus of the Bible is eternal and not a created angel. The Jesus of Mormonism was begotten naturally, just like any other man through sexual relationships. The Jesus of the Bible was begotten miraculously of the Holy Spirit - Matthew 1:20 3. Mormonism claims to have as its authority two priesthoods, the Aaronic and the Melchezidek. But the Bible clearly teaches that neither of these priesthoods could be restored and certainly not by some of the Apostles. Mormonism declares that salvation is of works (see for instance the 3rd Article of Faith, "saved by obedience"). Salvation is on different tiers depending on how many works you have accomplished at the Temple etc. The Bible shows that salvation is by Grace alone and works follow after salvation and are what God has prepared for us. The Book of Mormon declares that Jesus was born at Jerusalem, which is explained as being an area not the town. God could not make a mistake about the birthplace of His Son and the Nephites should not have. Early Mormons did not want to call themselves Christians. They were delighted to be different to Christianity and all the churches, which they thought were apostate. It also shows that men can never become gods but in the afterlife will be glorified human beings. Mormons baptise for the dead, a practice carried on by the pagans in Corinth. The Book of Abraham is one of the Scriptures of the Mormon Church. Joseph Smith claimed he translated it from the Lord and Mormons accept it as from God. Historical sources within and without the Church that have examined the original Egyptian document have proved it was a fake and does not contain 'Scripture' at all. If this one part of the Scriptures of Mormonism is unreliable how much more? |
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