3/12    So Taiwan seems to be a pretty developed country, why is it still
        considered a third world country?
        \_ state your source.
        \_ because they are not yet white and the quota for nonwhite is 1.
           \_ idiot, why do you even bother wasting bits with your racist
              hateful shit?
           \_ did you really go to cal?
        \_ because they don't have the political, economic, military, or
           diplomatic power to be considered a major power.
           \_ don't forget the congressional brawls.
              \_ hey, we've got them too now! - random Korean guy
        \_ Taiwan is *NOT* a developed region,  not even close.  For one thing
           Taiwan is lack of rule of law.  This is a major issue which most
           American has overlooked because it is not as cachy as "democracy"
           and "human right" etc et.  Mind you that rule of law is the
           fundamental building block of democratic government, and a democracy
           without rule of law is actually in many ways more chaotic than
           dictatorial form of government.  Things you have taken for granted,
           such as (relatively) independent judicial branch does not exist
           here.  Law enforcement is selective, tend to be charged with either
           political motive or influenced by bribe.

           Infrasture wise, when you step out of Taipei, you will find that
           Taiwan is still pretty damn underdeveloped.

           Even in Taipei City... give you an example, the waste water
           treatment plant just went online recently.  Can you imagine a city
           of 1.7 million live on local septic tanks?

           Lastly, Taiwan is not a country.  The Constitution of Republic
           of China state that Taiwan is part of China and the constitution
           is designed for entire China in mind.  Read them if you can actually
           read Chinese.
           \_ I like that argument for the annexation of Taiwan.  "Our
              Constitution says so!"  If only the Germans had amended
              their Constitution to say Austria, Poland, the Low Lands,
              France, etc. were a part of the Reich, there wouldn't have been
              a problem!  And before you bring this up, most of those
              territories (along with Spain) were in fact Hapsburg possessions,
              and part of the Holy Roman Empire at one point or another.
                -- ilyas
              \_ Haha, there may be problems in his argument, but not the one
                 you are dwelling on.  He was referrring the consistituion of
                 ROC (i.e. taiwan), which claims it to be part of China.  You
                 made fun of yourself, again.
                 \_ Ok.  Show me where:
                    http://www.taiwandocuments.org/constitution01.htm
                      -- ilyas
                   \_ I don't have to.  I don't care about taiwan or china or
                      roman empire.  I just saw you misread another post in
                      such an obvious way and went ahead pouring your vast
                      "intelligence."  You should ask the guy to whom you
                      original replied to show that and thank me for helping
                      with your reading comprehension.
                      \_ I don't know.  Are you sure you schooled me?
                         Taiwanese constitution doesn't say (or at least
                         I couldn't find anything about this) "Taiwan" is a
                         part of "China".  It was merely a non-communist
                         constitution which was meant to apply to all of
                         china once the nationalists won.  They never did,
                         and it applies to a small island instead.  If you
                         really want your 10 motd points, you can have them,
                         however. -- ilyas
                         \_ The constitution specifically said that no one
                            allowed to alter the soverign territory of
                            the Republic of China, and at the time, the
                            constitution covers entire chinese mainland.
                            and this claus of contitution still exists.
                                - someone who actually can read chinese
                                  and read the damn constitution, unlike ilyas
                         \_ It has nothing to do with what any constitution
                            says, but has everything to do with the carrier
                            we want to buy from ebay for you.  I donate the
                            10 points toward its purchase.
                            \_ Tell you what.  How about I spare you the
                               trouble of replying to me in the future.  I am
                               nothing but a stuck-up, stupid, rabidly
                               libertarian, selfish, blind, easily offended,
                               unattractive, smelly, kooky, ridiculous,
                               no life loser with the attention span and
                               reading comprehension abilities of a 10
                               year old.  I should fuck off and die like my
                               libertarian ilk, and keep my rabid
                               politico-sexual fantasies to myself.  Can we
                               just agree on that?  I default on all the motd
                               points.  Any future argument between us you win
                               automatically.  I accept any remotely clever
                               jokes you make at my expense in advance.  I
                               surrender unconditionally.  -- ilyas
                               \_ You're not allowed to.  Sorry, but you lose
                                  on losing, too.  That's impressive!
           \_ Yes, outside of the big cities, there are people living
              at shocking levels of poverty.  It's really quite
              frightening, and the gov. seems uninterested in changing
              anything.
              \_ When I swang by the mainland China, I was shocked by the
                 difference in standard of living between the city and
                 the country side (and I didn't even wonder off to any
                 really poor country side neither).   For a moment, I thought
                 Taiwan is much better in this regard.  Then, I realize
                 that I *RARELY* step outside the Taipei city.
                 \_ just because you rarely see outside of taipei doesn't mean
                    taiwan is full of countrysides with poor rural bumpkins.
                    taiwan is much better in this regard.
                    \_ I don't dispute that.  However, Taiwan is much smaller
                       and at least in my view should of done a better job
                       closing the gap between the country side and the city
                       than what is on the table right now.
           \_ I am not very familiar with Taiwan's government system,
              but are you sure about your claim that Taiwan does not
              have an independent judiciary branch?  Can you back it
              up?  I read a book or two by Li3 Ao2, and even under
              KMT rule (under CCG, I presume?), which he sharply criticized,
              he was able to win case after case in the courts.  That
              would be unthinkable in say, commie China.
              \_ I am sure, because I live in TW right now and I have heard
                 enough share of horror stories, to a point that I had to
                 constantly remind myself that this is not the way things
                 suppose to work.  The supreme court, for example, is extremely
                 weak and they are subject to president's political pressue.
                 This is one of the reason why nobody ever bother to ask the
                 supreme court to interpret the legality of laws and the
                 referendum conducted solely by the president right now.
                 The prosecutor general is essentially a servant of the
                 president.  Those who doesn't cooperate, including judges
                 and people on the prosecution team, gets rotated out of the
                 trial while the trial is in progress.
        \_ When I was in Singapore, I remember once where some international
           organization reclassified Singapore as a developed nation.
           The local government controlled media started trumpeting the
           achievement all over the place.  Then PM Lee Kuan Yew spoke up
           and says Singapore is still a third world country.  Lee Kuan
           Yew is smart because one still gets some advantages (trade,
           loan, etc.) by being a third world country in name.  The
           government controlled media then did a full reverse course
           and started pumping out articles on why Singapore is not yet
           a developed nation.  It was kind of funny.
           \_ Funny in the way that government controlled media is funny.
                \_ pray tell us how else could it have been funny?
                   \_ exactly my point.
        \_ Guys, you shouldn't compare everything with US.  America is an
           exceptional country, one which is founded on a sound principle
           and evolve along a sound trajectory, has always had an unbiased
           judiciary and a functining democracy.  If you have to measure
           against the US, then no other country is developed.
           \_ blah blah america is bad, the worlds problems are all our fault
              and if it wasnt for america the world would be utopia, so lets
              just raise taxes, slash the military to ribbons and pay off the
              rest of the world to like us because their liking is us is so
              important as if international politics was a playground game