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| 5/24 |
| 2004/3/2-3 [Politics/Domestic/California/Arnold, Politics/Domestic/California/Prop] UID:12481 Activity:high |
3/2 Can any car/bike racing enthusiasts recommend which nearby track is
better (i.e., Laguna Seca vs. Sears Pt)?
\_ Don't forget Thunderhill
\_ Is that a recommendation?
\_ Thunderhill is the one I would recommend if you are running
and not just watching. It is a great place to learn and
has a lot of run off room.
\_ seconded. Thunderhill is cheaper than Laguna Seca, and
safer than Sears/Infineon. --jwang, ex-AFM#911
e/2 Today is super tuesday. Don't forget to vote. Here's the obPoll:
Kerry: .. (lemmings)
Kerry: ... (lemmings) <-- whatever
Edwards: .
Kucinich: ..
Sharpton: .
Neither: ..
yes on prop 55: .....
no on prop 55: ..
yes on prop 56: ...
no on prop 56: ...
yes on prop 57: ..
no on prop 57: ...
yes on prop 58: ..
no on prop 58: ....
yes on Measure 2: .
no on Measure 2: .
tired of polls: ..
don't care: .
\_ not so. there are several other very important issues on there
even if you think the primary is over.
\_ votes formatted not because I'm anal, but because I'm so incredibly
bored. :-)
\_ No open primaries this year. This sucks if you are an independent
but want to actually have a say in what your choices for the
prez vote are.
\_ You can still vote for Nader...
\_ If you want to have a say, you should have registered as a Dem
for this election, then switched back before November. If you
can't figure out how to game the system, you have no place
whining about it.
\_ Not true. You can request a Democrat ballot if you want. I
am an independent and I voted for a Democrat in the primary.
\_ Yeah, those damn parties thinking they should base the primary on
who the party members choose...
\_ Let the parties hold their own elections then instead of
having the government foot the bill.
\_ The independent in front of me in line asked for a republican
ballot. There's nothing contested in any election for the
republicans. Why would he ask for that instead of the democrat
ballot where he can make a difference?
\_ Which prop is about raising the bridge tolls? I'm so ignorant.
\_ Measure 2, comes with good things and bad things.
Translink would be great, but ferries are a waste of money
as is extending BART to Byron.
\_ The problem with M2 is it raises the bridge toll but uses the
funds for many other unrelated projects. So it taxes a small
number of people but asks a larger number of people if it is
ok to tax that smaller number for the larger group's benefit
without cost to that larger group. This is the worst form of
taxation possible. I voted against it merely on those grounds
even though we need to improve the transit system. And no, I
don't drive the bay bridge regularly. Maybe twice a year.
\_ I agree that ferries suck, but BART builds slowly and it makes
sense to build in the direction of future growth, which is
to the east.
\_ BART is a ridiculous boondoggle, far too expensive and
slow to cover the distances it's trying to cover. The
more we extend BART, the longer it will be until we have
a decent transit system in the Bay Area. That said, I
begrudgingly voted for RM2. -tom
\_ Slow? 32min from Hayward to downtown SF during morning
commute hours seems pretty fast to me. Can't beat that
even if you're carpooling with two passenges.
\_ you *can* beat that if you're using a train system
in any major city in Europe or Japan. And the ride
from Byron is likely to be more than an hour. -tom
\_ How often do those train systems stop? Thanks.
Let's get some apples/apples here. Put away the
oranges.
\_ Heavy-rail systems with stops at similar
distance to East Bay BART are much, much
faster; top speeds 50-100% higher than BART.
In dense areas, systems like the London
Underground do just as well in comparison.
-tom
\_ And cost how much? Are you seriously saying
we should replace BART with a new system
that will cost more to run and run louder
through all the neighborhoods?
\_ No system will cost more to run than
BART--standard rail costs quite a bit
less than non-standard rail. And have
you ever actually been to another
country? The trains are quieter than
BART. -tom
\_ Have you ever been to New York?
You don't have to go to another
country to beat BART.
\_ NY is much better than BART, but
it's not particularly fast or
quiet. -tom
\_ How many trains have to go by before you can be
pushed into one in the Tokyo area?
\_ let me get this straight--BART is better
because it's really slow, so no one uses it,
so the trains aren't as crowded? -tom
\_ No, more like people use trains because the
population density is so insanely high they
live like rats. Is that what you want?
\_ How long does it take to get to the station and find
parking in the morning?
\_ There are always more than a hundred empty spaces
in the parking structure even at 9am everyday.
\_ Which parking lot are you at? If I'm not there
by 8:30, it's completely filled.
\_ 32 minutes? I'm a bit further out on that line and
it isn't 32 minutes for that part of it.
\_ Glen Park BART is 12 minutes to Montgomery, which
is faster than you can drive that route on a fast
motorcycle. I know, I have tried. -ausman
\_ How is a proposition different from a measure?
\_ Prop=Statewide, Measure [1-9]=County, Measure [A-Z] = City
\_ Why are they trying to fund healthcare with a sales tax increase?
It's regressive taxation and falls whenever the economy is in
trouble. Not to mention it harms the local economy more than an
income or property tax because it's easier for people to shop
somewhere else than to move or change jobs.
\_ Because nothing but a sales tax increase will ever pass county
wide. Any policymaker worth their spit would prefer an income or
property tax but they are generally impossible to pass in CA.
\_ with good reason. taxes are already too high.
\_ Where are they trying to do this?
\_ Alameda county. Proposed sales tax increase to 8.75%
It's a worthy cause, being funded in one of the most ass-ways
possible.
\_ So for the "yes on 55" folks, why do you want to add a $12B bond
with $12B interest to the CA finance mess?
\_ Because it is an investment for the future, because I think
education is usually money well spent, because CA spends less
than it should on education, because we are in a recession
and I believe in Keynesian economics. Yeah, I know we will
probably not still be in a recession by the time the money
is spent, but the CA finance mess is not a good reason to
not spend money on worthy causes, since the economy will
be better sooner or later, probably sooner.
\_ We already spend more on education/pupil than most states
and get the least for it. Education doesn't need more money.
It needs a structural overhaul.
\_ Somewhat untrue: Education in CA needs more money AND
they need to spend it more wisely.
\_ I don't think it's a case of "spend it more wisely" but
restructure the entire educational system. The people
in charge from the top all the way down plus the
teacher's unions all have to go. Until that happens,
no amount of money will improve CA education.
\_ Wrong. California ranks 33rd in per pupil spending. We
spend like a poor Southern state and wonder why we get
crappy results. CA needs to spend more on schools.
http://www.edsource.org/sch_expend.cfm
\_ Dump the illegals and then recalculate, or get a chart
that shows absolute numbers which your chart is hiding
or better yet, do both.
\_ Prop 55 includes a $300m grant to build more charter schools.
On this basis alone, I cannot, in good conscience, support
it.
\_ Building schools makes no sense when the kids at the
current schools don't even have books or teachers. This
is money poorly spent in the name of education.
\_ For the "yes on 56" folks, why do you want to lower the number of
legislators needed to increase taxes to 55% from 2/3?
\_ The state budget has been in chaos over not being able to return
tax rates to an equitable level. Giving the legistature the
ability to actually do their job sounds like a good idea, unless
you are one of the many in CA who doesn't like paying for what we
have here.
\_ If you paid the taxes *I* pay you'd think they're already too
high. Go get a real job and pay that shit yourself for a few
years and we'll see what you think "equitable" looks like.
\_ I for one think welfare queens should start paying their fair
share.
\_ What percentage of the state budget is spent by your
so-called "welfare queens"? Do you even know?
\_ I already pay more than my share for what "we" have here.
\_ If you really fell that way, why not leave?
\_ The weather which is not something improved by increased
taxes.
\_ Because it only takes 51% to lower them.
\_ Is that true? I thought *all* tax legislation had to be
passed by the same amount.
\_ and when was the last time your state taxes were lowered?
\_ It's sad how easy y'all get brainwashed by right wing talk
radio.
\_ When was the last time taxes were lowered?
\_ Last fall, by Herr Gropenator.
\_ Case in point. Look for a reference to a "car tax"
before, oh, '96.
\_ No taxes were lowered by the Governor.
http://www.igs.berkeley.edu/library/htCAVehicleLicense2003.html
\_ I wonder how it feels to be you and be wrong about
everything, all the time.
\_ I see a fee being lowered after it was raised
earlier. Where is your tax? Do you think I was
unaware of the VLF being lowered? You're not even
remotely as clever as you think you are.
\_ In real dollars, property taxes go down every day. Thanks,
prop 13.
\_ Until you move.
\_ Yes, thanks prop 13 or I couldn't afford to own a home.
My parents would already be in the street.
\_ Prop 13 doesn't do anything to help new homeowners;
it only helps people with hundreds of thousands of
dollars of equity in their homes keep from
contributing to the community. The idea of people
losing their homes over property taxes is a myth.
\_ A myth? I was here and saw it happen. It is
real life to me, not some history book lesson.
I lived in pre-prop 13 CA. Did you?
\_ Yeah, I was here too. We used to have good
schools before Prop 13 dried up the revenue
for them. CA has been on a slow downward
spiral ever since it was passed.
\_ Yeah, the state was better bankrupting
families so they'd leave and take their kids
with them. Who wants to spend money
educating all those middle class kids?
\_ Uh huh. Without Prop 13 my taxes would be up
40% over the last two years. Since they are
already $5K now that's another $2K. I wouldn't
lose my house, but I'd suffer. Eventually, I
might lose my house if the taxes double/triple.
\_ So? Suffer away. It's market economics. You
could always move instead. Also, without prop
13 the burden would be spread everywhere.
\_ It's not market economics. What good
does it do me if my house is worth 20x
what it used to be? I should pay tax on it
when I sell and not before, like with stock.
\_ I think Mr. I Hate Prop 13 is just a
bitter apartment dweller who gets off
every night thinking tomorrow will be the
day the housing bubble bursts and he can
finally afford a house.
\_ property taxes pay for the services which
support the value of your house, like
police, fire, and roads. The analogy to
stocks is totally missing the point.
-tom
\_ So if my house is worth 20x what
my neighbor's house is worth then
I should pay 20x more for this?
\_ I think so. -!tom
\_ Even if it doesn't cost 20x to
supply services to his house?
He uses the same amount of road,
fire, police and other services.
His more expensive house does
not put a bigger drain on the
local services. Let me guess,
you're not a home owner and
don't work yet, either?
\_ I am a homeowner, and have
been working for 15 years.
Try again, anonymous coward.
-tom
\_ You 'work' for UC and live
in Oakland.
\_ How do either of these
points matter to the
discussion? And why
do you put "work" in
quotation marks?
Because I didn't get
laid off with the
rest of the dotbombers?
-tom
\_ How much more will you lose if
your block goes up in flames? Or
if property values crash because
of high crime and shitty schools?
-tom
\_ He's getting the same service as
the shitty house next door. Will
the local fire department make
his fire a priority when both
houses catch fire at the same
time? Not a chance. Will the
cop go to his house first? Nope.
\_ You didn't address my point.
If property values drop by
50%, Mr. Expensive House will
lose a lot more money than
Mr. Cheap House; therefore,
Mr. Expensive House has
more personal interest in
services which support
property values. -tom
\_ You think this
relationship is linear?
When the house price
doubles, does the cost
of these services also
double?
\_ Because it is past time that California raised its taxes.
\_ no its past time California lowered its expendatures.
\_ Okay, where? (And no, deleting my question does not count
as a win.)
\_ I wasn't here when your question was deleted. Where?
2 things for starters: revamp the educational system,
and stop spending money on illegal aliens, then we'll
have a chance to see what The People's real needs are
and go from there.
\_ California already spends less on education than
most states. This has been the case for a very
long time.
\_ I didn't say spend less. I said revamp. The
entire system is broken and needs to be redone.
\_ illegal alien is a federal issue, not state one.
I think it's unfair to ask California to bear the
burden of Federal government's failure to guard its
borders.
\_ None of this really matters as long as the e-voting machines can be
shown to be easily compromised and voters are not required to show
ID in order to vote. Aargh!
\_ I had to show ID this morning.
\_ Where did you vote? (City, County)
\_ Dublin. They asked everyone for ID.
\_ When I was voting this morning I saw an old person asking about
paper receipts and audit trails. It made me happy.
\_ In San Francisco, we vote by filling in lines with a pen on
a piece of paper, which is then read by an optical scanner.
This seems like an ideal solution - not prone to error or
fraud, easy to understand for everyone, leaves a permanent
record for recount, and not labor intensive for the precincts.
Why do other counties insist on using such awful solutions
like Diebold?
\_ Who keeps the piece of paper, the voter or the polling
station? If it's the voter, this system is highly
vulnerable to verifiable vote-selling. If it's put in
a lock-box at the polling place, you're in much better
shape.
\_ The actual ballot with the pen markings is fed into
the optical scanner by the voter themselves - after this
it is locked away for safekeeping. The voter keeps
only the receipt torn from the top of the sheet.
See here:
http://www.fairvote.org/administration/votetech.htm
Scroll down to "optical scanning."
\_ Wow, that rocks! Thank you! Now if only Alameda
County would implement this. |
| 5/24 |
|
| www.edsource.org/sch_expend.cfm Please take a few seconds to help us understand our audience better. This is the only time you will see this screen on this website unless you visit us from another computer. |
| www.igs.berkeley.edu/library/htCAVehicleLicense2003.html Introduction The California vehicle license fee is an annual fee on the ownership of motor vehicles. Since 1998 the fee has has been incrementally reduced from two percent of a vehicles current estimated value to 065 percent, representing a 675 percent decline in the fee overall. The state has replaced the lost revenue from fee reductions with money from the General Fund on a dollar-for-dollar basis, and thus cities and counties have not suffered as a result of the fee reductions. The state earmarked $38 billion to reimburse local governments in 2002-03. But ambiguities in the provision made its implementation a contentious issue. There was strong dissagreement over wheather the fees could be raised administratively, or wheather legislative action was required. On June 20, 2003 the Davis administration reinstituted the full vehicle license fee, and to date the action has withstood legal challenge. The action was a key step in the plan to close the $38 billion shortfall in the 2003-2004 budget. The increase tripled the vehicle license fee for the average car owner, and began appearing in renewal notices starting August 1. The California state budget passed in late July 2003 included the projected $4 billion in increased vehicle license fee revenue. Proponents of the Governors recall characterized the increase as a tax hike and used it as an issue in the recall campaign. In mid-August 2003, Davis floated a plan to reverse the increase, making up the revenue with taxes on high income earners, cigarettes, and alcoholic beverages. When Gray Davis was recalled and Arnold Schwarzenegger was elected governor in October 2003, Schwarzenegger vowed that his first act as governor would be to revoke the vehicle license fee increase. Schwarzenegger signed Executive Order S-1-03 , rescinding the vehicle license fee retroactive to October 1, 2003 when the fee increase went into effect. Analysts predict that this will add more than $4 billion to the state deficit. The governor did not indicate how cities and counties would be reimbursed for the lost revenue they receive from the license fee to support public safety and other local government activities. In: Chapter 1 of Californias Fiscal Outlook: LAO Projections, 2003-04 through 2008-09 . From the authors abstract: After the effects of federal and state income tax deductions are taken into account, the fee is found to be as regressive as the states sales tax. Vehicle License Fee : a Comparison among the Most Populous Cities of Each State . Sacramento: California State Library, California Research Bureau, 1998. California Vehicle License Fee to Triple Average Increase Will Be $158: Critics May Sue, San Francisco Chronicle, June 21, 2003. Legal Donnybrook to Follow Car-Tax Hike, Sacramento Bee , June 20, 2003, p. Steinbergs Tax Swap Could Have Adverse Long-term Consequences, Sacramento Bee , Aug. Characterizes Assemblymember Darrell Steinbergs proposal to revoke the vhehicle license fee increase as an expedient and crassly partisan move to influence the recall election in the Democrats favor. Ticktock, Ticktock: Budget Doctors Dodder While State Bleeds editorial, Sacramento Bee , Dec. What comes, says Schrag, is restoration of the vehicle license fee, increased income tax rates for the top earners, and a boost in the tobacco tax and the sales tax. Good policy would include services in the sales tax-lawyers fees, cleaners, auto and equipment repair-without a rate increase. A huge budget hole calls out for a range of solutions, taxes included. But its important to know who will be hit by a new levy, such as the car tax felt most sharply by low-income drivers. Lay Blame for California Budget Stalemate at Governors Doorstep editorial, Orange County Register , Aug. On the budget so far, the governor has no vision except unacceptable tax increases-especially the doubling of the car tax he proposed and the Senate passed-that would hit middle-class families hard and further depress an ailing economy. Local Officials Reminded That State Money Always Comes with Strings, Sacramento Bee , Mar. |
| www.fairvote.org/administration/votetech.htm The Federal Election Commission publishes voluntary standards for voting equipment and software. The Secretary of State or other state election official typically certifies equipment and software, and counties or other jurisdictions purchase equipment from the certified list. Electronic Direct Recording Equipment DRE Electornic DREs resemble Automatic Teller Machines ATMs. Voters either touch the screen or press buttons to indicate their choices. When the polls close, some of these machines print out vote totals. They also have removable memory cartridges that contain all of the voting data, and some of the machines come equipped with modems that automatically send the results by phone to an election office. Electronic DREs are not suitable for counting absentee or mail ballots. Models include the Sequoia Pacific AVC Edge , Global AccuTouch and the ESS Votronic . Riverside CA bought touch screen equipment for all precincts at a cost of $3,000 per machine. Optical Scanning Optical scanners use forms similar to standardized tests or some lottery tickets. Voters fill in bubbles or connect arrows on the ballot to indicate their choices. The ballot is fed into the optical scanner, which scans and reads the ballot much the way a fax machine scans a page. Optical scanning can occur at the precinct level or at a central location. At the precinct level, the scanner is the ballot box: after scanning, the ballot passes automatically into a sealed ballot box. Vote totals are transmitted by phone or modem, or memory cartridges are removed from the machines and delivered to the election offices. With central scanning, after the polls close, ballots are transported from the precincts to a central location. There, election workers feed the ballots into scanners, which read and count the ballots. Optical scanning is suitable for use with absentee and mail ballots. Precinct-scanning units include the Sequoia Pacific Optech Eagle, the ESS 100, and the Global Accuvote . Central scanning units include the Sequoia Pacific IV-C and the ESS 550 . The machines cost $40,000 - $50,000 and scan 20,000 ballots per hour. For large jurisdictions, central scanning has the potential for significant cost saving compared to precinct scanning and touch screens. Push Button and Lever Direct Recording Equipment DRE The machines are mechanical or electronic equipment. Voters pull levers or push buttons next to the candidates for whom they wish to vote. The machines tend to be old and bulky, and their use is declining. These types of equipment are not suitable for absentee or mail ballots. Models include the Sequoia Pacific AVC Advantage, the Danaher Controls Shouptronic , and numerous older lever models. Punch Card With a punch card system, the voter uses a stylus to punch out tiny circles or rectangles in a card. The cards are fed into a mechanical card reader that detects which holes have been punched and records the vote totals. Voters just need a stylus or even paperclip to punch out the holes, but most jurisdictions using punch cards provide the voter with a frame that makes it clear which hole corresponds to which option. The use of punch card systems is declining, as the number of companies that can service card readers decreases. New punch card systems use equipment that, like a precinct scanner, secures ballot in a box after voters casts them. Mail Balloting With mail balloting, voters receive ballots in the mail, indicate their votes on the ballots, and mail them back to the election office. Election administrators count the ballots in a centralized location. Optical scanners or punch card readers can count the ballots, or election workers can manually enter the ballots into a DRE such as a touch screen or push-button machine. Oregon conducts all statewide and legislative elections by mail, as do other jurisdictions throughout the United States. Internet Legislation to explore the use of Internet voting has been introduced in Minnesota and the state of Washington, and the Secretary of State of California convened a task force which made recommendations to the legislature on Internet voting. The Department of Defense has conducting a pilot project to allow overseas residents, both military and civilian, of Florida, Missouri, South Carolina, Texas and Utah to vote by the Internet. Consideration of Internet voting has raised concerns about security, fraud and voter coercion. |