Berkeley CSUA MOTD:Entry 12295
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2017/11/22 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
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2004/2/18-24 [Finance/Shopping, Finance/Investment] UID:12295 Activity:nil
2/18    Immediate position open for Sr. Systems Engineer (sysadmin)
        at http://Walmart.com. If you meet the criteria, please e-mail me.
        We've been getting weak resumes from our less-than-technical
        recruiter. /csua/pub/jobs/walmart.com           -- Marco
         \_ Walmart?  I'd rather be a janitor at MSFT.
            \_ MSFT is far more evil than Walmart.
        \_ awww...all that sysadmin talk's gone???
           \_ maybe people should start a new thread when they think of some
              cool entertaining flame war related to a job post.  That will
              be less likely to be censored and won't provide a disincentive
              for alums to post jobs.
           \_ jealousy.
           \_ all that salary talk probably made it harder to find a
              schmuc^H^H^H^H^H^Hqualified candidate.
        \_ Do you know the general pay range for this?  60-80, 80-100, 100+?
           \_ Our rates are very competitive. Conservatively, I expect a
              qualified candidate would easily clear $80K. -- Marco
              \_ How about employee discounts at Wal-Mart stores?
                 \_ More importantly, how about stock options?
              \_ Is this really considered competitive for a senior person?
                 It looks average, or even a bit below, to me.
                 \_ It's quite low.  Senior Sysadmins should clear 100k at any
                    company.  Mid level people make into the 90s.  80k is
                    certainly not competitive.  A few weeks ago I turned down
                    110k and another company I'm currently talking with will
                    be offering me 110k plus other benefits that will make it
                    worth it to give up my current 120k.  At 80k I wouldn't
                    even consider applying or telling my friends about it if
                    they were senior level.  Then again, so few sysadmins
                    survive more than 3-5 years that anyone who hits the 5 year
                    mark is considered senior even though they're only just
                    becoming useful at that point.  It's a strange world we
                    live in.  I've always wondered what happened to the ones
                    who didn't survive.  I suppose they become developers?
                        --15+ years SA
                    \_ These numbers are too high for anywhere outside of
                       Silicon Valley. Also, 15+ yrs. is a huge amount of
                       experience and would increase your salary over most.
                       http://sageweb.sage.org/jobs/salary_survey
                        \_ If you need five years to become a good sysadmin
                           then you must be pretty dumb. Sysadmin is a support
                           function, if you design your netopology correctly
                           your day-to-day is basically just monitoring and
                           replacing defects. Once a month or so you'll need
                           to add in more storage or add in a couple more
                           machines. Again, if you designed your netop correctly
                           this is a piece of cake. Backups are relatively
                           easy nowadays with the right RAID. I mean seriously,
                           I sysadmin EDA software, which is a bitch, and it
                           didn't take me five years to "become useful."
                           \_ Sorry, you are just wrong. There are some things
                              you can only learn by working on a wide variety
                              of systems. Also, all the senior level jobs
                              include at least some management.
                              require at least some management.
                              -SA with 10 yrs exp
                           \_ I sense a dick-waving contest coming on...
                              \_ "They've got bigger dicks?  BOMB THEM!" --GC
                    \_ Someone has to fix the cash registers.
                 \_ He said "conservatively" and "easily"
        \_ Marco, thank you for posting this.  No one should ever be
           attacked for posting a job on the motd.  I never understood
           the suicidal "I'm too good for your stinking job!" attitude
           so many motd idiots have towards alums posting jobs.  This is
           part of what is called "networking", you clods.  It's *the* best
           way to find a new or better job.
        \_ I'm talking about a very well paying job doing real
           systems work at one of the world's largest ecommerce
           operations. If all of the stuff below disturbs you, by
           all means, do not send me your resume. If you want a
           good job; please let me know. -- Marco
           \_ Some people have ethical problems with Walmart.
              Some are just fucking with you, and some might want
              the job.
        \_ That's because sysadmins charge more than $6.80/hr.
        \_ in the grand scheme of things when you consider which
           companies stand to totally destroy the lower middle class
           and lower class income brackets, Walmart is completely satanic
           and threatens to lower the quality of life of millions
           Americans directly and indirectly.  You can say that that's
           just the effect of the free market, and I would happen
           to agree with you, but it does not make it suck less.
           This brings up the question of if I were completely down
           on my luck and I was offered a job with something that
           I consider Evil(tm), such as Walmart/Microsoft/Halliburton/
           Archer Daniels Richland or whatever that ethanol leech
           behomoth corporation is named, if I would take it.  I'm not
           sure.
           \_ If you are talking about Walmart squeezing out smaller
              companies and offering the newly unemployed low-wage,
              non-unionized jobs with few/no health benefits -- you have
              a point, but please be more specific next time.
        \_ Not that we don't appreciate the job posting, but which is more evil
           Walmart or Microsoft?
           \_ Is that a joke? I'd say that Microsoft is Evil, they way I might
              say an American politician is evil, even though even the worst
              American politician is better than Kim Jung Il, and even the
              worst software company is better than Walmart.
              \_ They're evil for different reasons.  Plus as a sysadmin you'd
                 be more directly helping MS be evil.
           \_ There are people who will argue whether the flames are blue or
              green, when the point is that their arse is on fire.
           \_ Walmart isn't Evil. They can't be evil. They sell Linux
              and Linux isn't Evil is it?
              \_ They sell Windows too.
        \_ Walmart significantly increased the standard of living of the
           (under)employed.  According to
                http://www.heritage.org/Research/Welfare/bg1713.cfm
           the "poor" enjoys a lot of amenities in life.  In fact they
           would be considered middle class or even upper class in coutries
           that you are so worried about taking our jobs away.  What makes
           this possible is the low prices introduced by stores like Walmart.
           I don't have any love for walmart, but during the time I was
           employed, I got everything from walmart and it kept my expense
           down and finance afloat.  Most of the people who trashes walmart
           are those too rich to know the need of the low income Americans.
           \_ that is interesting and i value your opinion, but could
              you find more evidence of this not coming from an incredibly
              right wing think tank like the Heritage Foundation?  I happen
              to be from one of those little towns that Wal-Mart has
              indirectly completely devestated.  You can probably
              say "that's because of cheap labor available from China,
              quit whining." and once again I agree but it still sucks.
              I think there is a direct temporary short term benefit,
              like as you said when you're poor it's pretty awesome and
              convenient to be able to go to walmart and clothe yourself
              almost completely for under $30, but in the long term
              the presence of a walmart directly depresses or destroys
              the possibility of any local retail jobs that have any
              chance of offering a liveable wage.  Maybe everyone in
              America needs to retrain immediately for jobs in the
              New Economy.  I have not read of any evidence that
              the current or even past presidential administrations
              actively care or are offering any leadership in this area.
                \_ Bush's job training program is "be a Halliburton
                   contractor in the front lines in Iraq so when you
                   get shot and killed we can NOT REPORT it because
                   you were a civilian non existent contractor but
                   since you don't go in the 'troops killed' column,
                   we don't have to tell anyone and the american
                   public doesn't and won't care.
                   [reformatted - formatd]
                   \_ Bosnia, Somalia, Haiti, etc weren't exactly great job
                      creation plans.  People die in war zones, shit happens.
                      They get hazard pay.
              Also to endlessly argue that the very poor in this country
              are much better off than say arsenic poisoned homeless
              dudes in Bangladesh or entire generations of people who
              live in garbage dumps in Manila and never see solid land
              is a circular argument, it's not going to win me over.
              \_ Whatever you think of its source and author, you should
                 consider its facts and arguments in their own rights.
                 The data that article cites comes from US govt reports.
                 See the article and its references.  And let me just quote
                 "The average poor American has more living space than the
                  average individual living in Paris, London, Vienna, Athens,
                  and other cities throughout Europe. (These comparisons are
                  to the average citizens in foreign countries, not to those
                  classified as poor.)"
                  \_ Living space != standard of living.  If it did, we'd be
                     sending food and blankets to the Japanese.
                     \_ It's part of the whole picture.  And the average
                        japanese are miserable in that regard.
                \_ does living space automatically equate to a higher
                   standard of living?  Mongolian steppe herders
                   probably have spaces the size of Delaware all to
                   themselves.
                   \_ see above, and your comparison is not valid.  You know
                      how much tent space per person they have?
                \_ I don't think living density in this country is going to
                   approach japanese or european or southeast asian or
                   chinese levels any time soon unless we suddenly run
                   out of oil, we have pretty hard to overcome urban
                   sprawl problems, that ironically walmart has
                   exploited very successfully.
                   \_ Japan: 127,214,499 ppl in 374,744 sq km.
                      USA:   290,342,554 ppl in 9,158,960 sq km
                      Or roughly half as many people in 1/24th the space.
                      The US will never achieve this level of pop density.
                        \_ does the above include (or exclude?) areas
                           of the US you're not going to live in, like
                           national parks or volcanoes or the sides
                           of mountains or Houston?
                           \_ Of course, as well as huge chunks of Hokkaido
                              and numerous inhospitable rocks in dispute with
                              Russia.
                              \_ None may enter the sacred forests of Hokkaido,
                                 reknowned for their countless soap factories.
        \_ So why support a company that makes billions by rapidly
           furthering us towards a great equalization of global poor people
           by lowering the standard of living of poor people in the US to
           India's poor?  Is that how globalization is supposed to work?
           Great!  Actually no one is really saying how much they
           love Walmart, and I bet they just pave over all the poor
           people at Marco's work and he has little concept of it and
           is probably a nice guy.  I know a couple of people who work
           at Chevron-Texaco and they had absolutely NO IDEA why people
           would keep 'blocking the main road to campus' or protesting
           or giving them mean looks when they went to work in San Ramon.
           I mean, come on, they have college degrees from UCB but
           they choose to be really stupid.  I answer their evite
           party invites with NO BLOOD FOR OIL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
           \_ Well, Walmart sells cheap stuff.
           \_ Now you see many of the so called "liberals" are haters.
              \_ what is this "so called" stuff?  I AM a liberal
                 and damn fucking proud of it, ok not proud enough
                 to sign my name today, check back later.  I notice
                 none of today's posters are sufficiently walmart
                 loving or frothing at the mouth, what happened to
                 free market guy?  or free republic guy?  on vacation?
                 \_ And what about Chicom troll?  You'd think cct would have
                    a (painfully incoherent) opinion about all of this.
                    \_  Has it occurred to you that Marco's giving a
                        "conservative estimate," such that he sets an
                        appropriate expectation, and such that he isn't
                        brokering a salary negotiation?  I'm pretty sure
                        http://Walmart.com will pay market for you superstars out
                        there.  --chris
                    \_ I said "average" or "below".
2017/11/22 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
11/22   

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Salary Surveys As part of its ongoing effort to gain recognition and advancement for system administrators, SAGE annually conducts a System Administrator Salary survey. The 2002 SAGE Salary Survey The 2002 SAGE Salary Survey is now online. Weve also got a compendium of the comments about various topics that the respondents submitted. It makes fascinating reading, especially on the current hot topics like outsourcing and overtime with no compensation.
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www.heritage.org/Research/Welfare/bg1713.cfm
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