2/2     I've never played Chinese Chess.  Any comments about it?
        Aside from:
        http://www.chessvariants.com/xiangqi.html
        \_ it's a good game, more like chess and less like Go or weiqi.
           Probably a little less complex and difficult than chess, but
           you need a few dozen games before you can possibly beat me,
           a decent amateur, if you are pretty bright
           \_ [ Chicom troll censored, Chinese government style. ]
              \_ I think he means less complex is equivalent to fewer possible
                 moves
        \_ Also called Elephant Chess.  Very challenging and well-balanced.
           It seems simpler than chess, at first, but takes almost as
           much skill to master, so in that respect, it's similar.
           Perhaps chess has a greater number of variations, but both have
           a greater magnitude of variation than most non-experts can
           calculate, so mastery is of a similarly high level.  Btw,
           you can play online, too: http://www.xiangqiclub.com -nivra
           \_ Darn!  I went to the site, and got slaughtered.  Those
              people pretty good.
        \_ can one calculate the complexity of both games recursively? For
           example, how many moves exist by multiplying the number of moves
           for each piece with the next move, etc etc. Maybe that'll tell you
           mathematically how complex both games are.
           \_ No.
        \_ The Horse in Chinese chess moves the same way as the Knight.  (A
           knight piece is a horse anyway.)  The Chariot moves the same way as
           the Rook.  The Elephant moves somewhat similarly to the Bishop.
           The initial positions of Chariot, Horse and Elephant are the same as
           those of Rook, Knight and Bishop too.
           \_ not quite the same as in western chess.  The Chinese Horse
              can't jump over pieces; it always moves vertically/horizontally
              and then diagonally.
           \_ which bought a interesting point.  I am long suspect the Western
              Chess and the Chinese "elephant" Chess derive from the same historical
              Origin, as a lot pieces moves in similar way and has similiar
              constraint.
              \_ I believe western chess has arab origins who are known to have
                 been in contact with the chinese so it seems likely one got it
                 from the other.  I don't know which had it first.
                 \_ Chess came from an Indian game called Chaturanga.  It came
                    to Europe (in chess form) via Arabs, and to China (in
                    chinese chess form) likely directly.  -- ilyas
        \_ thanks for the info.  Interesting how there is no concept of a queen
           in the game.  But it looks interesting enough.  I like the
           concept of cannons and palace, and palace guards.
           \_ beware the double cannon checkmate and the cannon behind horse
              checkmate
              \_ are there are a lot of resources for english speaking
                 players?  computer games?  game databases?
        \_ related question.  Anybody here play wei-chi or go?  I heard that
           the rules of the game are so simple but the strategy is so
           complicated that we still can't write computer programs that play
           the game.  Or rather a program that's any good.  Not like deep
           blue.
           \_ I play. Very amateur.  There is a Berkeley Go Club, iirc. -nivra
           \_ Computer chess works because the number of moves that are legal on
              any one turn are managable, so you can search reasonably deep.
              Go has way to many moves to perform a good search, so the better
              Go programs have to do some sort of pattern recognition, IIRC.
           \_ I play wei-chi (badly).  Always looking for more people to play.
                -- ilyas
           \_ I am a rookie go player.  Go has simple rules.  I wouldn't
              call the strategy complicated.  It's just very different.
              Go has start game, middle game and end game, moving from
              vision, imagination and creativity to the analytical, from
              my limited understanding.  Last time, I played online a few
              years back, I beat the guy who gave me a four seed advantage,
              which is huge.  He thinks I play well for someone with less
              than 10 games experience.  He didn't know I read a Go book
              from the game store on Shattuck.  And I played very conservatively,
              using the 4 seed advantage to sit on him.  Still I almost lost
              it all (one-seed slower and a big chunk of my seeds would have
              been lost).  I think making a good computer player is possible,
              but it requires a different approach than chess.  The Go book
              I bought had a game by two masters with explanation of what
              they are trying to do, and it was just very beautiful the way
              each seed is placed at just the right place which at first
              doesn't appear good, but slowly built up to a grand vision,
              with developing patterns appearing like a monster jaw, etc.
              \_ I should add that some go rules are not so simple.  In
                 particular, rules governing ko (repetition) and scoring can
                 be a real bear.  In fact, such rules differ depending on
                 the country you play in.  The strategy in wei-chi is much
                 more complicated than in chess, in my opinion.  In fact, the
                 strategy is what's hard about wei-chi, tactical aspects of
                 the game can be well-handled by known search techniques.
                   -- ilyas
           \_ cf. shogi. There are similarities to chess, but big differences
              as well. For example, when you take a piece, it goes into your
              reserves and you can play it almost anywhere on the board. Also,
              pieces can be promoted under certain circumstances, altering
              their movement. Also hard to create an algorithm to emulate.
              \_ "hard to create an algorithm to emulate?"  What does this
                 even mean?  Do you know what the words 'algorithm' and
                 'emulate' mean?
                 \_ One of those english majors who took CS to play netrek
                    and did well in neither.
          \_ Chinese Chess has the (big in my book) advantage of being a
             much quicker game.  (fewer moves per game,  king is much more
             restricted making for a shorter end-game).  I just learned to
             play and I like it alot (though i've played only few games).
             Here is a decent online Java app:  -crebbs
             http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Grid/6544/cccintro.htm