1/16    motd hozers (all worship the great 'motdedit' or die!):
        \_ Where the hell is motdedit?
           \_ /csua/bin/motdedit
           \_ /csua/bin/motdedit or /csua/bin/me
              apparently someone doesn't know about symlinks
Boredcast Message from 'mehlhaff': Fri Jan 16 15:26:05 2004
frankly, if I waited for a lock with 'me' and when I'm done editing and vi
still says the file changed before my write, its tough cookies time. I'm writing
it out.

..
Boredcast Message from 'ausman': Fri Jan 16 15:41:25 2004
i am the same way mehlhaff and i have gotten flamed for it

Boredcast Message from 'mehlhaff': Fri Jan 16 15:42:18 2004
how can you get flamed for following an established convention for accessing
the motd with an attempt to keep from colliding with others writes.

the ones who need flames are
1) the idlehozers who lock the motd and go idle
2) the punks who edit the motd even when it is locked.

Boredcast Message from 'mehlhaff': Fri Jan 16 15:43:49 2004
actually they dont need flames, they need beatings.

Boredcast Message from 'jon': Fri Jan 16 15:44:14 2004
or selective editing of their dotfiles
not that i'd ever actually advocate that
\_ Unless mehlhaff has bulked up quite a bit since I last met him (in '92),
   I'd advise him to hire someone else to do the beatings. --erikred
   \_ who says you need to bulk up to administer beatings?  A good set of
      stocks or other restraints make the job soo much easier.  Applied of
      course, by the motd-convention-enforcement goon squad.
      \_ Sounds like someone's taken that "hire someone else" idea to the
         next level. --erikred
\_ Sometimes I suspend my editor. Motdedit can't deal with that. So, I won't
   use motdedit. It was also frequently locked to no reason by others. I think
   a better system is one where users edit their own copies and then use a merge
   program. This is what I do and it works great, except for the fixable problem
   of it not dealing properly with conflicts (when I add a reply on the same
   line as someone else, it should just concatenate).
   \_ Is it really that hard to use an editor that detects when changes have
      been made since you started editing a document, copying your changes,
      exiting the document, pasting your changes back in, and saving the newly
      changed document?  How lazy are you?
      \_ Not as lazy as the guy who won't even use motdedit, obviously.
         \_ Then there are people like me who was trying to be courteous by
            using motdedit and avoid stomping on other posts if the file changed
            while editing.  Then without thinking I suspended my editor and left
            motdedit hung.  I took a lot of flak for it (though no one contacted
            me until someone actually killed my process).  It's just not worth
            the hassle so I don't use it anymore.  It only works if everyone
            uses it.  That, and it makes people like mehlhaff think it isn't
            necessary to be courteous if they use it. -emarkp
            \_ Wait...you're the one who suspended your editor for a sizable
               amount of time while you had an exclusive lock on a shared
               resource, and mehlhaff is the one being discourteous?  -tom
               \_ You're an idiot. Thank you for playing. Play Again (y/N)?__
               \_ Courtesy has everything to do with intent.  My holding the
                  lock was unintentional.  Had it been pointed out to me
                  directly I would have rectified the problem immediately.  Once
                  I did notice, I fixed the problem.  Had I been intentionally
                  holding the lock, that would have been discourteous.  To make
                  sure I don't do that again in the future, I no longer use
                  motdedit, and I don't overwrite others' comments. -emarkp
      \_ No, it's actually easier (emacs C-x C-v). But there is also a loss of
         anonymity there. Anyway laziness is a virtue.
         \_ a loss of anonymity where?
            \_ If everyone used me, it's possible to track posts by who has the
               file open. Especially if they sit with it open for a long time
               composing.
         \_ How do you do this in vi?
            \_ In VIM at least, you will get a warning if you try to save and
               the file has been changed.  My typical use is to yank my comment
               if I get a warning, then reload the file, then repaste my
               comment.
               \_ So after you wait 5 minutes for a lock, then have someone
                  change the file out from under you, you save your edits
                  and get in line again for another lock? No thank you.
                  \_ Dummy, it's an open file.  There's no requirement that you
                     wait for a lock.  And no one "saved their edits under
                     yours".  Repeat after me: "world writable file".
                     \_ There is no requirement that I not ovewrite your
                        changes either. You are a lazy hozer and deserve
                        to be overwritten.
                  \_ Um, no I don't a first or second time.  I don't use
                     motdedit, hence I start editing, and if the file changes I
                     simply do a manual merge. -emarkp
   \_ This is a big problem with motdedit.  There's a solution, it hasn't been
      implemented yet, however. Give it time.
      \_ well when it is implemented, let us know and we'll have something to
         talk about.  in the meantime you motdedit fascists can go stick your
         head in a pig.  motdedit is just a way for people with no system fu
         to figure out who is editing the motd.  the locking mechanism is an
         unnecessary joke.
   \_ just curious: how does motdedit not handle suspending?
      \_ motdedit has a process that times out the lock after 10 minutes.  However,
         if the editor is suspended, motdedit is suspended(SIGSTP), and the perl
         script no longer counts off 10 minutes.
         \_ can motdedit be written to catch SIGSTP?  So that it might
            handle it or kill itself off even, if necessary.