11/19   A colleague just told me about his wife's home birth experience.
        Gave birth at home into a water tub.  No doctors present, only one
        midwife.  The umbilical cord was wrapped around the baby's neck
        twice.  But the mid-wife safely delivered the baby.  If this was a
        regular hospital doctors would be jumping in there ready to cut open
        his wife for a C-section just so that they can get their $15K bonus
        (insurance pays more for C-section, they have a financial incentive
        to do so).  Upper middle class white women with insurance get cut open
        more than uninsured minority women.  Think about that.  -old fashioned
        \_ The US has one of the lowest infant mortality rates in the world.
           I assure you, that has nothing to do with midwifery or home
           birthing techniques.  It's really nice when people can dredge up
           exceptions where everything went well -- but the price of failure
        \_ You mean upper middle class white women with insurance are getting
           goes way WAAY up when you don't have immediate access to modern
           healthcare facilities.  Personally, given a choice between
           'tradition' and 'survival of my children' there's absolutely NO
        \_ Of course, she might have failed and the baby could have died.  Also,
           which baby was this?  1st?  2nd?  7th?
           CONTEST.  And why for fuck's sake do you feel this rediculous need
           to get validation from motd?  People here believe in, you know,
           TECHNOLOGY -- so it's kind of a hard sell if you're truly not
           trolling.
           \_ actually, the US has a fairly high infant mortality rate:
                US:      6.75/1000
                UK:      5.28/1000
                Canada:  4.88/1000
                France:  4.37/1000
                Germany: 4.23/1000
                Japan:   3.3/1000
              That's better than it was 20 years ago, but it's still probably
              the highest among any of the industrialized nations.  However,
              that speaks to the lack of health care, more than the
              overapplication of it.  -tom
              \_ I love when people post numbers comparing mostly homogenous
                 countries to completely diverse countries like the US.  You
                 can make statistics say anything.
                 \_ 37% of all statistics are made up.
              \_ WTF?!  Even my country banana republic Singapore has lower
                 infant mortality rate than US.
                Singapore 3.57/1000
              \_ Cuba:  6.0/1000
                 \_ Eh, I think Cuba is much closer to 7.5 or so.
              \_ Beijing and Shanghai 5.05/1000
              \_ How do you know this has anything to to with health care?
                 \_ What else would it have to do with?  Gel cups?  -tom
                    \_ Population density, genetic homogeneity, climate, crime
                       rate, drug rate, education, etc.
                        \_ Be serious--the only common factor among the
                           other industrialized nations of the world is
                           that they all have better health care than the
                           US.  Occam's Razor.  -tom
                           \_ They also have smaller populations.  You're sure
                              you've listed the *only* thing they have in
                              common?
                              \_ yea, and another thing they have in common
                                 is that they are all not America.
           \_ Why did you write that sentence about "lowest in the world"
              when obviously it's false?
              \_ 1) Because it's not, 2) Because your reading comprehension
                 sucks.  Try again when you've grown up, grasshopper.
        \_ gee, you don't think it might just be more dangerous to deliver
           a baby with the umbilical cord wrapped around its neck?  How
           much is your baby worth to you?  -tom
        \_ Hey look!  The baby troll is back!
        \_ You mean upper middle class black women with insurance are getting
           better care?! That said, a friend delivered with a midwife (not
           at home, though) and liked it a lot. Her first baby was born at
           a hospital. Any future ones will be via midwife. --dim
        \_ Of course, she might have failed and the baby could have died.
           Also, which baby was this?  1st?  2nd?  7th?
        \_ you're choosing a dumb midwife over 200 years worth of medical
           experience? What if the baby needs surgery? What if the baby has
           an infection and anti-biotics are needed? What if the midwife
           didn't sanitize herself properly? What if something goes wrong,
           is that insured?
           \_ midwivery has been going on for much longer than 200 years.
              \_ so has accupuncture, so what?  my *vet* has a poster on the
                 wall showing accupuncture points for dog and cats.
                 \_ Most midwives are medically trained and equipped.
                    \_ yeah?  so is my vet.
                      \_ Boy, I love trolling you.  Just add a lah at the
                         end of a troll and I get an extra troll for free.
                \_ The correct spelling is "acupuncture".  Learn to spell
                   first lah.
                   \_ LAH!  You so right spelling LAH!  Showed him LAH!  HAH!
        \_ Go Baby Troll!  You are the most effective troll the motd has yet
           seen.  Go Go Go!  --baby troll #1 fan
           \_ really?  this is the first time ive seen babytroll.
              \_ babytroll is the man!  First there were all the threads about
                 "the condom broke" or "what does my gf missing a pregnancy
                 test mean."  Then there was the home birth thread, and now
                 the followup.  I especially like the buildup from the birth
                 control to the birth techniques.  Slow, subtle, yet powerful.
                 Babytroll rules!  --baby troll #1 fan.
                 \_ I think cloth diapers are better than disposable diapers
                    ......
        \_ GARRIAGE!