Berkeley CSUA MOTD:Entry 11026
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2025/05/25 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
5/25    

2003/11/11-12 [Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:11026 Activity:kinda low
11/11   Dean is electable:
        http://csua.org/u/4yi
        \_ ...and note that Bob Graham is now out of the race, leaving
           Florida up for grabs.
        \_ Shut your piehole. It is better to let the Republicans gloat
           about how they are going to beat Dean in a landslide. -AML
           \_ Bush bashing Dean as a liberal peacenik is a valid concern...
              esp.  with his untold millions in funds. [formatd]
              \_ Perhaps I was unclear. If the Republican get worried,
                 they will be able to raise more money from their base. -AMC
           \_ Gloat?  Our gloating has zero effect on the election.  We gloat
              because it amuses us to see you flail around desperately
              worshipping a lost cause.  4 more years, baby!
              \_ Its going to give me great pleasure to taunt you a second
                 time when Bush loses.
                 \_ Like the way you taunted me after Davis got recalled and
                    after the way you taunted me after Arnold won and the way
                    you taunted me when the two (R) candidates in a very left
                    wing state got over 2/3rds the votes, and the way you
                    taunted me when Bush got elected the first time and the way
                    you taunted me when Clinton got impeached and the way you
                    taunted me when the (R) took control of all branches of the
                    government and the way you taunted oh nevermind.  You just
                    keep at that bong and keep taunting me.
        \_ anyone care to comment on this?
           "Ironically, if he does get the nomination, Howard Dean's
            biggest problem will be Bill and Hillary's attempts to
            subvert his candidacy.  They simply cannot afford to have
            another Democrat in the White House, in short, if Howard Dean
            is elected President, Hillary never will be.  So, the Clinton's
            will do whatever they must to make sure that doesn't happen."
            \_ The tinfoil hat brigade always comes out in force whenever
               the name "Clinton" is invoked, like Pavlov's dogs salivating
               at the sound of a bell.
               \_ Uh, hey genius, why do you think Clark is in there?
                  \_ Erm.  Maybe because he wants to be president?  Oh right,
                     Clinton is the All-Powerful Daemon who rules from the
                     center of the Earth in his Plot to convert America to
                     Homosexuality, I forgot.  He made Clark do it with his
                     special Clinton Powers.
                     \_ Thank you. That was the best post I've read in
                        weeks.
                     \_ Hey genius, it's public knowledge he's the Clinton
                        Candidate.  It's not some dark evil secret.  If you
                        were more well read and less partisan you'd know that.
               \_ I'm suprised the tinfoil hat crowd hasn't made a bigger
                  deal of the fact that Kerry was a Skull. If he wins the
                  nomination it'll be Skull vs. Skull.
                  \_ Because Kerry is a Dem so it's ok.
                  \_ As an aside to the Skull talk, my aunt was in the same
                     private high school class as George W. Bush.  She said
                     he was the guy who was always puking in the corner at
                     parties.
                     \_ Wow!  That's totally news the rest of us didn't know
                        about 4 years ago when he first ran for office!  You
                        rock!  Thanks for the timely report!  /sarcasm
           \_ Bush bashing Dean as a liberal peacenik is a valid concern... esp.
              with his untold millions in funds.
2025/05/25 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
5/25    

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Cache (8063 bytes)
csua.org/u/4yi -> www.moore-info.com/Poll_Updates/2004%20Election%20%20Why%20Dean%20can%20win%20Sept%2003.htm
Moore Information Public Opinion Research TO:. Moore Information Clients & Friends. FROM:. Hans Kaiser & Bob Moore. RE:. Election 2004: Why Dean Can Win, September 2003. A recent article by David Brooks left readers with the distinct impression that Republican pollsters are all of the opinion that Howard Dean cannot possibly beat George Bush. We regret that he didnt check with us first, as it is our belief that Dean has the potential to be a formidable candidate who could give the President a very difficult race. The conventional wisdom that has some Republicans giddy about a potential Dean candidacy is not only misguided, it is counterproductive. Writing off a candidate like Dean by selectively sorting statistical gobble-de-gook and mixing it into a broth of empirical sociological evidence ignores the political realities of our time. Howard Dean can win because he believes in what he is saying, because he can semi-legitimately spin his record as Governor into one of fiscal conservatism, and because he comes across as if he actually cares about people. We dont know what the issues will be 14 months from now. Perhaps the economy will be rolling and the President will be soaring. If thats the case, no one can beat him. But there is the potential for the economy to remain sluggish and stagnant and conditions in the Middle East are impossible to predict. Should these situations remain status quo or worsen, America will be looking for someone new, someone fresh, someone who can shake America out of the doldrums and reinvigorate the body politic. Dean would provide solutions and excitement where the other Democrats, while perhaps polished and attractive, are not as convincing because they dont have the perceived conviction of a Howard Dean. Furthermore, if one makes the case that Bush could be vulnerable to the poofy John Kerry or the scintillating yawn Bob Graham, how can anyone write off Howard Dean? Because Graham can win Florida, he can win the White House? Well, Dr. Dean knows a little something about health care and there are a few folks in that state who have some stake in the issue. And lets not forget the Presidents noble efforts to reform Social Security, a demagogues dream in the Sunshine State. Howard Dean has many qualities that make him a strong candidate, but the best way to judge his ability to win is simply to do the math. Below is a list of states we believe Howard Dean could win. We have broken them down into three columns. The first column is basically the Democrat base. The second column consists of Democrat leaners/swing states. The third column is Republican leaning states where Democrats have won in the recent past and could do so again. Democrat Base. Democrat leaning/ swing states. Republican leaning. California. Iowa. Florida. Connecticut. Michigan. Missouri. Delaware. Minnesota. New Hampshire. Washington , DC. Nevada. Ohio. Hawaii. New Mexico. Illinois. Oregon. Maine. Pennsylvania. Maryland. West Virginia. Massachusetts. Wisconsin. New Jersey. New York. Rhode Island. Vermont. Washington. Electoral votes. Electoral votes. Electoral votes. Total. Total. Total. As you see, Dean can win even without Florida. Furthermore, of the 23 states that make up these 270 electoral votes, Bush only won two in 2002, squeaking by in Nevada but only getting 495 of the total vote, and winning West Virginia with 519 With no significant opposition to Harry Reid in the Senate race and the nuclear repository issue alive and kicking, Nevada is going to be tough for the President. And West Virginia is a very Democrat state, where Deans willingness to work with the NRA on gun owners rights will go a long way toward deflecting the liberal charge. Today there are four states that we would put in the lean Republican column but these states - Florida, Missouri, New Hampshire and Ohio - could go either way. The remaining states give Bush a base of 206 electoral votes to start. Basically, it will be tough for any of the current candidates to wrest these states away from the President barring any catastrophic developments. Oh sure, if Wesley Clark is a Veep choice he might make Arkansas competitive, but overall, Bush will have a solid South through the Great Plains and Mountain States. So Bush starts with 206 and Dean starts with 183. Judge for yourself whether or not you think Dean could be formidable in the states above. Because as Al Gore learned in 2000, the popular vote doesnt elect the President. The Electoral College does, and when you do the math, a Dean candidacy is a lot more realistic than people think. The difference between Howard Dean and the rest of the Democrat candidates is that Dean comes across as a true believer to the base but he will not appear threatening to folks in the middle. More than any other candidate in the field, he will be able to present himself as one who cares about people doctor, who balances budgets governor, and who appears well grounded while looking presidential. To be sure, he doesnt look that way to the GOP base, but that has no bearing on the election, because they will never vote for him anyway. He can appeal to the middle and Republicans can ignore his candidacy at our peril. We are whistling past the graveyard if we think Howard Dean will be a pushover. Howard Deans appeal is closer to Ronald Reagans than any other Democrat running today. Granted, thats not saying much with this field, but there are similarities here. The Democrat party used to chuckle about Reagan and his gaffes which they believed would marginalize him to the far right dustbin of history. But when his opponents tried to attack him for some of his more outlandish statements, the folks in the middle simply ignored them. Voters in the middle looked to the bigger picture where they saw a man of conviction who cared about them and had solutions for their problems. Howard Dean has the potential to offer a similar type candidacy. Furthermore, the far-left liberal charge which Republicans have used effectively in the past to define Democrats has much less impact today than it used to. The problem here is that the GOP spent years warning America about the ills of a left-wing liberal Clinton presidency and how it would destroy the economy, ruin our children, and leave America a twisted wreck. Well, we survived and the economy actually did well during much of the Clinton years. America didnt have a problem with Bill Clinton being a far-left liberal, they had a problem with his inability to tell the truth and his total lack of morals. Certainly Dean has made some gaffes and needs a little more seasoning before the general election. But the only people paying attention right now are the diehards on the left and the right. The voters who will actually determine the outcome of the Presidential race are currently checked out. They couldnt pick Howard Dean out of a police lineup. And you can be sure that when they do begin to pay attention they wont be searching back issues of the Hotline or the National Journal to research the guy. Thats insider stuff that is totally lost on the great majority of voters in America. When the nominee of the Democrat party is selected, voters will start to focus. By then, should he have the nomination in hand, Howard Dean will be billed as the moderate fiscal watchdog this country needsoh, and by the way, he wont take away your guns. And if the economy is still stagnant, and there is little progress in the Middle East , that could be plenty enough for him to win 270 electoral votes. Let us not be fooled by misguided conventional wisdom. Dean is a threat and Republicans better not ignore him. Ironically, if he does get the nomination, Howard Deans biggest problem will be Bill and Hillarys attempts to subvert his candidacy. They simply cannot afford to have another Democrat in the White House, in short, if Howard Dean is elected President, Hillary never will be. So, the Clintons will do whatever they must to make sure that doesnt happen. So maybe Dean cant win after all. But thats another memo.