11/7 Liberal views force soldier out of military
http://csua.org/u/4xk
\_ There is no free speech in the military. Good thing they got
rid of this guy.
\_ I'm ashamed to call you an American.
\_ ITs the military, chain of command and all that stuff.
DUH.
\_ Just following orders?
\_ Non sequiter?
\_ Here's a good line which motd leftists should take to heart,
"The unfortunate aspect of this is not my demise, but their
inability to understand or accept the opinions of others as
different from their own." And here we see a leftist of all people
correctly describing the difference between the right and left in
our little motd world. As a conservative I understand and accept
the opinions of the leftists here. I simply disagree. What I do
not do is rant about how you're all automatically evil and wrong
and stupid without discussion simply for thinking differently.
Mostly I feel badly for you. I have hope you'll one day think about
the world with open eyes and see how it is for others and come
around. I'm not giving up on you.
\_ What are your thoughts on Bush?
\_ He's not a real conservative. Mostly, I'm disappointed.
\_ if only any of this were true....
\_ I think you so-called real conservatives need to take a good
look at how suppressing differing viewpoints is really starting
to hurt America. Here is a case where a good, and it turns out
accurate, young Marine was driven out for telling the truth.
The Bush Administration is increasingly driven by ideology and
not facts.
\_ There is no opinion in the military - don't you
understand this? You follow the Commander in
Chief's orders - thats it. If every soldier acted
on some whim based on the alignment of the planets
chaos would reign (not an effective military
not facts.
machine).
\_ We've been watching differing viewpoints get suppressed for
years in the media. This is nothing new to us. We're quite
aware how suppressing other viewpoints is bad for America.
Pot, kettle, black. --conservative
\_ And your point is...? Just because it's happened to
the conservative team (since all politics can clearly be
categorized by one of exactly two labels) doesn't make it
somehow magically okay or any more acceptable. Two wrongs
& etc.
\_ When others do it, it is just as bad. It is just more
disturbing when those in power do it.
\_ Maybe you and the person above missed the other reply
where I said Bush isn't a real conservative and I'm
\_ Well, since you don't sign your fucking posts,
expecting people to automatically associate them
where I said Bush isn't a real conservative and I'm
as originating from the same source is a little
silly.
mostly disappointed with his actions/policy/whatever?
If you think Bush is a conservative, which he isn't,
and want to stick real conservatives with his policy
as if we all 100% believe in all 100% of it then you're
nuts. That's a strawman argument. I hope you can do
better than that. Would it make sense for me to claim
that Al Sharpton represents all liberals and everything
he says and believes is something you all 100% believe
at all times, too? Real conservatives disavowed Bush
about 30 days into his first term when one of his first
actions was to expand all government programs by 4%
across the board. From that day forward he became
nothing more than the lesser evil of the Bush/Gore pair.
It's the very same media bias that conservatives
complain about that keeps people like you thinking that
conservatives like me are pro-Bush zombie ditto head
clones. Real conservatives don't exist in the media.
We're just a caricature that your media kicks around.
\_ the Weekly Standard crowd aren't "real conservatives"
either? ok, fine. from now on I will identify all
my unusual opinions as those of a "real liberal"
and claim every liberal you've ever heard of isn't
really a liberal so you can't use any published
information on liberal ideology to disagree with me.
this is absurd. why don't you start a new thread
and post the three to five most basic priciples of
whatever you're calling "real conservatism?"
I suspect you're the same person who signs their posts
"real conservative" periodically on the motd, and
some of us are genuinely curious.
-real transcendentalist
\_ I don't write for the weekly standard. They have
nothing to do with anything. It's a for-profit
publication of no interest to me. Some basics:
1) smaller government, lower taxes 2) no
religious hijacking of government in *either*
direction which means the 10 commandments being
posted in a school or court room is not a crime,
but we shouldn't have prayer in school either, 3)
no business in people's personal lives which
includes sex, abortion, euthanasia, and other
medical decisions, however that also means being
gay or whatever doesn't make you a protected
class either, 4) the end of government created
poverty: give a man a fish and he eats for a day
(and then comes back for another fish tomorrow).
There's more but that should give you some idea.
The core concept is the government stands in the
way of personal achievement and progress for all
people once it grows beyond a certain size and
exceeds it's mandate as laid out in the
constitution. We need government, because
without it we'd have anarchy leading to
dictatorship, but we don't need a government that
has the power and the will to destroy and steal
our freedoms through the sheer size of government
and the average citizen's inability to fight
against it to protect our most basic rights.
Would you like to provide a few summary points of
what a real liberal is?
\_ actually, I don't consider myself a "real
liberal" at all, I just said that to point
out the flaw in your argument. I basically
agree with most of the points you claim for
"real conservatism". However, I don't
believe you can claim point (3) above for
coservatives. If you look at the opinions
of the vast majority of republicans vs.
democrats, there is not question that the
republicans are the worse party for civil
\_ waco, elian, creating swat teams
within virtually every Fed department
(eg. IRS, Forest Service, FEMA)
rural cleansing through endangered
species, etc..... what Pres did this?
The Patriot Act was written
during the Clinton administration and
contains provisions proposed much earlier,
law enforcement has always wanted power.
The Act merely codified actions
used by law enforcement for decades.
The problem is government, period.
If you are concerned with government
intrusion why do you insist on giving
the Fed more power and money to pass
more laws to regulate more aspects of our
lives. This is common sense, freedom
and a social welfare state are
irreconcilable. The latter always
marches inexorably towards tyranny.
\_ How many Canadians do you know? How
many got sick? The ones I know came
to the US to get medical care
because their oppressive government
doesn't allow them to purchase
better care than the government
offers. They are forced into using
sub standard care and must cross to
our country to restore their free
access to western medical standards
even though ours has sunk since
HMOs took over and destroyed most
of it, it's still better than there.
\_ Yeah, like Canada. Those Canadians
with their welfare state and
socialized medicine are so oppressed.
Philosophical support for a small
government inherently protects
liberty... this always has been
provenance of the right (though there
are many, probably a majority, of
RINOs in government). The 'opinions
of ...' is a very vague term.
liberties. To claim otherwise is an analogous
arguement to that made by leftists who
claim all the evils of communism in the 20th
century were by governments that were
"not real communists." I don't buy into either
argument. Your claims for "real conservatism"
sound a lot like William Safire's brand of
"conservatism." Unfortunately, you and
William Safire appear to be the only
"conservatives" in America who give a
damn about civil liberties. My point about
real liberals above was just this: just
because I like to call myself a liberal and
believe in smaller government and fewer
\_ Once again, you only see the conservatives
as the leftist media presents them. It
*really* pisses me off to read the pseudo
right wing op/ed chick in the Chronical
who makes the most idiotic points in the
most illogical manner possible. We exist
and we are not happy with Bush but it's
better than anything the minority party
has to offer so we hold our nose and vote.
not facts.
\_ Here's a good line which motd right-wingers should take to heart,
"The unfortunate aspect of this is not my demise, but their
inability to understand or accept the opinions of others as
different from their own." And here we see a leftist of all people
correctly describing the difference between the right and left in
our little motd world. As a liberal I understand and accept
the opinions of the right-wingers here. I simply disagree. What I
do not do is rant about how you're all automatically evil and wrong
and stupid without discussion simply for thinking differently.
Mostly I feel badly for you. I have hope you'll one day think about
the world with open eyes and see how it is for others and come
around. I'm not giving up on you.
\_ if only any of this were true....
what a real liberal is?
subsidies does not make that a liberal ideology
no matter how much I wish it was. so I don't
call myself a liberal. |
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