Berkeley CSUA MOTD:Entry 10285
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2024/11/23 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
11/23   

2003/9/22-23 [Reference/Military] UID:10285 Activity:kinda low
9/22    Anyone watch History Channel's Greatest Match in History last night?
        They compared the ME-109 vs. Sabercats and AK47 vs. M16s. A lot of
        pros and cons, etc. To recap, there was a motd post on AK vs. M16s,
        and according to the show M16 was much better on paper, but in
        real life combat esp. in close range jungle and sand type gorrela
                       I'm normally not one to care too much about _/
                       spelling, but the word is guerilla.  Try to
                       get it close to right.
        type warfare the AKs were better even though it was a pretty low
        tech weapon. Here is the show's summary:
        range:          M16 better
        accuracy:       M16
        weight:         M16
        reliability:    AK47 (can shoot even dirty whereas M16s jam)
        penetration:    AK47 (penetrates 2 4x4 block, M16 can't penetrate)
        availability:   AK47 (parts easy to repair, make, readility available)
        In the end they have their own weaknesses and strengths, and
        depending on terrain/conditions/etc one could be better than the
        other.
        \_ The M16 is the worst assault rifle currently in service, possibly
           tying with that horrible bullpup thing the british use.
           \_ You know that's funny only cause their elite SAS use M-16s
              But their own regular army use SA80(L85A1).
           The soviets did the right thing with the AK and copied the
           Sturmgewehr 44, the first assault rifle ever made.  (Incidentally,
           the moniker 'sturm gewehr', or 'assault rifle' was coined by
           Hitler himself).  The germans always did know how to make guns.
           You will notice that most good assault rifles out and about are
           either copies of the AK (and by extension the sturmgewehr) or
           are made by the swiss.
             -- ilyas
           \_ Still do. See the H&Ks. Very nice urban assault.
        \_ And you take their word for it because..?  If you live outside
           this communist state of Kalifornia, get one of each yourself
           and find out. I managed to do so before the ban and I would
           agree.
        \_ I'd take an AK47 over an M16 for anything less than ideal
           circumstances. Of course, I think hunting in CA as pretty much
           "ideal" conditions.
           \_ "It's coming right for us!"  Rat-a-tat-tat  --Uncle Jimbo
        \_ whoever said the M16 was good anyway?  I'll take a silenced M4A1
           carbine anyday over those ak47 wh0r32!1!!
           \_ Dood, the M4 is just a M16 as a carbine and different stock.
              \_ so trolled
             \_ anyone who has both knows it's a lot more complicated
                than that. part of it is 5.56 M855 is less than ideal
                on soft targets under the influence at close distances
        \_ Americans in Iraq using AK-47's: http://csua.org/u/4fm
          \_ this is news cuz? it happened in Nam also. Later they
             forbid this except for SOF like SEALs
             \_ Too many friendly fire problems.
        \_ They call a show on AK-47 vs. M16 "Greatest Match in History"?
2024/11/23 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
11/23   

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Cache (3456 bytes)
csua.org/u/4fm -> www.sacbee.com/24hour/special_reports/iraq/story/978148p-6862352c.html
More United States troops using confiscated AK-47 rifles By ANDREW ENGLAND, Associated Press Last Updated 5:00 am PDT Monday August 25 2003 BAQOUBA, Iraq AP - An American soldier stands at the side of an Iraqi highway, puts his AK-47 on fully automatic and pulls the trigger. Puffs of dust dance in the air as the bullets smack into the scrubland dirt. United States troops in Iraq may not have found weapons of mass destruction, but theyre certainly getting their hands on the countrys stock of Kalashnikovs - and, they say, they need them. The soldiers based around Baqouba are from an armor battalion, which means they have tanks, Humvees and armored personnel carriers. A four-man tank crew is issued two M4 assault rifles and four 9mm pistols, relying mostly on the tanks firepower for protection. But now they are engaged in guerrilla warfare, patrolling narrow roads and goat trails where tanks are less effective. Troops often find themselves dismounting to patrol in smaller vehicles, making rifles essential. Mark Young, commander of the 3rd Battalion, 67th Armor Regiment, 4th Infantry Division. We are certainly capable of performing the missions that we have been assigned, theres no issue with that, but we do find ourselves somewhat challenged. In Humvees, on tanks - but never openly on base - United States soldiers are carrying the Cold War-era weapon, first developed in the Soviet Union but now mass produced around the world. The AK is favored by many of the worlds fighters, from child soldiers in Africa to rebel movements around the world, because it is light, durable and known to jam less frequently. Now United States troops who have picked up AKs on raids or confiscated them at checkpoints are putting the rifles to use - and they like what they see. Some complain that standard United States military M16 and M4 rifles jam too easily in Iraqs dusty environment. Many say the AK has better knockdown power and can kill with fewer shots. Some troops say the AK is easier to maintain and a better close-quarters weapon. Also, it has some psychological affect on the enemy when you fire back on them with their own weapons, McCarson said. Most United States soldiers agree the M16 and the M4 - a newer, shorter version of the M16 that has been used by American troops since the 1960s - is better for long distance, precision shooting. But around Baqouba, troops are finding themselves attacked by assailants hidden deep in date palm groves. Sam Bailey of Cedar Falls, Iowa, was in a Humvee when a patrol came under rocket-propelled grenade and heavy machine gun fire. On one side, there was a mud wall and palms trees, on the other a canal surrounded by tall grass. Bailey, who couldnt see who was firing, had an AK-47 on his lap and his M4 up front. Some soldiers also say its easier to get ammo for the AK - they can pick it up on any raid or from any confiscated weapon. Eric Harmon, a tanker who has a full 75-round drum, five 30-round magazines, plus 200-300 rounds in boxes for his AK. Hes considered banning his troops from carrying AKs, but hasnt yet because if I take the AK away from some of the soldiers, then they will not have a rifle to carry with them. Michael Perez, a tanker, said he would take anything over his standard issue 9mm pistol when hes out of his tank. They say you can probably drop this in the water and leave it overnight, pull it out in the morning, put in a magazine and it will work, Perez said.