9/20    How's it work in the US with life insurance--do you have separate
        work and private insurances like here (assuming you're employed)
        and count the private one as more of a savings plan?  Curious
        because of all the insurance-related stuff on the net wealth thread
        below.  -John
        \_ Using life insurance as a savings plan is a *really* bad way to
           'invest'.  You can *always* do better by just getting long term
           CD's and similar low yield but safe investments.
                \_ Sure, no argument there.  My point was just that here
                   (Switzerland) the whole 'savings' thing is sold as a major
                   side effect of having, well, life insurance.  Which is a
                   bit lame, seeing as how most plans run about 20-30 years,
                   and for the first 5-10, if you withdraw, you actually
                   end up paying penalties instead of getting anything back.
                   \_ It's sold the same way here but it's an equally bad
                      idea no matter what country you're in.
                      \- if you have no dependents, why do you have
                         life insurance?
                         \_ The way it works is you get a certain amount
                            (CHF 5k/year) that goes off your taxes, towards
                            your insurance for a certain amount (say 200k.)
                            For the first x years, you have a deficit, but
                            then you start to accrue principal and interest.
                            If you croak before the end of the time the
                            insurance runs, you get the full amount paid.
                            After you're done, you can withdraw the principal
                            plus interest.  It has a lot of disadvantages,
                            such as being very inflexible.  Basically, it's
                            considered as an add-on to your pension.  -John
                         \_ some policies are written in such a way that you
                            can withdraw money from them, in effect they become
                            an investment vehicle, although a very poor one.
                            \_ Is that the same as an annuity? Isn't that the
                               thing where they give a good return but are
                               betting that you die before getting the $?
                               \_ An annuity is just any annual income derived
                                  from investment.  The insurance above is
                                  called 'whole' life, as opposed to 'term'
                                  life (which is simply a monthly fee for
                                  insurance.)  [formatd]
                                  called 'whole' life, as opposed to 'term' life
                                  (which is simply a monthly fee for insurance.)