Berkeley CSUA MOTD:Entry 10105
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2003/9/6-7 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/California/Arnold] UID:10105 Activity:insanely high
9/6     "...that an in-depth state audit showed only 19% of
        illegals bother to file taxes, and the best
        data on illegal immigrants, from the late 1990s
        National Science Foundation study, shows that
        each citizen-headed household in California
        pays out a net extra $1,178 to shore up 3
        million mostly low-income illegal immigrants."
        http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/977367/posts
        \_ Do you expect fact to change the opinion of democrats?
           \_ when was the last time you changed your mind about something
              based on a motd post?  and nice english.
              \_ a motd post?  it's happened.  an off site url provided by a
                 motd poster?  much more often.  im not either of the above
                 but if you're going to point out someone's writing flaws you
                 should first board up your own windows.
        \_ just wait until you get your wish, and your grocery bills are several
           times what they are today
           \_ Funny, that's the same argument people made against the abolition
                          \- shipping is probably cheeper than you think
                             it is. look if you are serious about *reducing*
                             the number of *illegal* immigrants [as opposed
                             to focusing on abusing them], you clearly need
                             to crack down on employers. you start *jailing*
                             employers [for harboring potential terrorists?]
                             including soccer moms hiring illegal domestic
                             workers, and then the the numbers will decline.
                             and while you are at it, go after illegals
                             from EU countries. --psb
              of slavery.  And I'm wearing mostly cotton clothing.  Nice
              argument, slaver.
              \_ cotton clothing and food are not the same, food is perishable
                 so you can't simply move to imports with little effects since
                 the price of refrigerated shipping is not as negligible as
                 throwing clothing into a tanker container.
                 \_ shipping is probably cheeper than you think it is. the std
                    example of non-tradable item is a "haircut". look if
                    you are serious about *reducing* the number of *illegal*
                    immigrants [as opposed to focusing on abusing them], you
                    clearly need to crack down on employers.you start *jailing*
                    employers [for harboring potential terrorists?] including
                    soccer moms hiring illegal domestic workers, and then the
                 \_ Some of my best friends are black.  No, really!
                    \_ nice retort
                    the numbers will decline.  and while you are at it, go
                    after illegals from EU countries. --psb
                    \_ Sounds like a good plan.  Why aren't you running for
                       Governor?
                       \_ If that were his only platform I'd vote for psb for
                          Governator.  Unfortunately the current batch are all
                          afraid of "the latino community" voting against them
                          for any efforts to clean up the illegal mess.  Who
                          said the thing about democracy only works until
                          the people figure out they can vote themselves
                          public funds?
                 \_ The product doesn't matter.  The price will go up if we
                    don't have illegal immigrant labor, yes.  But the product
                    won't go away, and if the employers are deprived of their
                    cheap labor, they'll have to modernize or increase wages.
                    You're basically arguing about maintaining a second class
                    resident who can be exploited for cheap labor with little
                    chance to rise above that.  Talk about your class warfare.
                    How is this fundamentally different from slavery?
                    \_ Exactly, they want an underclass to work basically as
                       slaves to keep things cheap.
                       \_ And the Dems say they're for the working class...
                    \_ the labor illegals do can't be modernized. i.e., not
                       everything can be picked by machines.
                       \_ tough shit.  so people will pay more for non-slave
                          laber speciality food items.  im not shedding any
                          tears that a few of your favorite and unnecessary
                          food favorites will go up in price because you won't
                          have third class slave labor to pick it anymore.
                          cheap prices is the lamest reason ive ever heard to
                          ignore our own immigration and labor laws.
              \_ And you want to deny them things like driver license so
                 their condition become even more like slaves?
                 \_ No you moron.  I want to send them back home.  If they want
                    to come here, let them come legally.  Crazy idea, rule of
                    law and all that.
                    \_ You guys just hate them damn spics.  Come on, admit it.
                       \_ What are you talking about you idiot?  Legal
                          immigration is open to everyone of every nation.
                          You're the one using the racial slur.
                          \- immigration policy is not "first in - first out"
                             the policy very much affects the composition of
                             who actually gets approved. also there are a lot
                             of different visas, rather than a single pool.
                                                             --psb
                    \_ Yea, again US should learn from my country Singpaore.
                       When Singapore started to have some illegal
                       immigrants, it just says, come forward before such and
                       such date and we will send you home.  Otherwise, if we
                       find you, we will cane you and then send you home.
                       Worked like a charm.  Solves the problem and allows
                       the illegal immigrant to get on with life, unlike
                       wimpy US measures like denying them driving license
                       which just makes their life miserable while they
                       would continue to remain in the US.  Of course, US
                       already allowed the problem to fester for too long,
                       and I suspect the US economy would suffer if all the
                       illegals all go home all at once.  - bglee
                       \- yeah, the US is just like SIN. really the place
                          to use caning are certain white collar crimes.--psb
                          \_ no.  destroying the lives and careers of american
                             workers, families, soon-to-be retirees and others
                             should be punishable by death.  the cane was
                             appropriate for that idiot child who spray painted
                             the cars in singapore, not billion dollar crimes.
2025/05/24 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
5/24    

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Cache (8192 bytes)
www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/977367/posts
Gray Davis and the candidates, failed to ask the toughest questions and let false statements go unchallenged. The utter fallacy, repeated two or three times by Cruz Bustamante, that illegal immigrants pour $1,400 more into Californias economy than they get back, for example, should have been stopped cold. Look closely at his wording, and you will see that each time Bustamante was asked about all the troubles surrounding illegal immigrants, he altered his answer and spoke only of what we gain from immigrants. Bustamante also knows that underground cash-for-work economy created by the 3 million illegal immigrants in California is one reason income taxes paid to California state coffers are so out of balance. Now, is the $1,400 he cited a figure Bustamante got from some think tank study about how much money our legal immigrants pour into California? Faced with experienced tough journalists, Bustamante would never have gotten away with that kind of slimy word game during a debate. But look at who was doing the questioning: small-market journalists from public radio, a small Bay Area paper and a Spanish-language paper, whose questions about abortion rights and other irrelevancies betrayed their left-leaning sympathies and their intellectual flaccidity in the face of phony Davis propaganda. Abortion rights in California have never been threatened, despite a number of conservative Republican governors during the past 25 years, and never will be. This is a media/Davis/NOW concoction that the media should slap down now and stop pandering to. Why was Cruz Bustamante silent during the gross overspending of the Davis years? Why did Davis ignore former chief economist Ted Gibsons data indicating the states revenue had dried up? Is Arianna Huffington, the anti-tax loophole candidate who uses tax loopholes, merely gathering anecdotes for a book? The debate merely distracted journalists while some of the worst legislation in years hurtled toward Davis desk. Lets review some of the worst stinker bills in Sacramento, shall we? Senate Bill 2 comes closer to socialism than anything Ive seen heading for approval in 20 years. It would force Californias hard-hit small and medium-sized businesses, with 20 or more employees, to pay 80 percent of employees health coverage. Companies with more than 200 employees would be forced to pay that for the whole family. SB 2 will spawn layoffs as small businesses pare down to get below the 20-employee cutoff. It is widely known among insiders that key details of SB 2, by state Sen. John Burton, were ghost-written by the Service Employees International Union. Then, miraculously, the SEIU handed Davis a check for $250,000 a few days ago. The goal here is to co-opt workers before the recall, then let the chips fall. Davis says hell sign SB 18, giving the obscure Native American Heritage Commission the power to stop development on anyones land in California if tribes feel construction interferes with a sacred site anywhere in the region. Initially, this turkey included a five-mile zone around each sacred site, meaning construction could be challenged five miles down the freeway from a burial grounds or other site. So its authors Burton again, and also ditzy San Diego Democrat state Sen. Now, tribes can challenge development even further removed from sacred sites. This bizarre bill also allows the public to be barred from the Heritage Commissions proceedings. Bowing to religious pressure, the location of the sacred sites will be secret. Although you cannot find this fact in the shallow media coverage, the real reforms were quietly killed weeks ago. True reform, proposed in a package of highly detailed bills by the Republicans that copied the top workers comp programs in the nation, were all wiped out in a quiet Democratic massacre over the summer. A Democrat-dominated conference committee now claims that its heavily watered-down proposal will give major relief to California. Davis was too gutless to force through the two basic reforms that make all others mere fingers in the dike. First, although the media rarely explains this Californias nutty rules allow the workers to essentially determine if they were injured on the job. Many doctors who make their living off workers comp are happy to oblige, proof or no proof. Only three states give workers so much say in this important matter-and naturally California clings more than any other state to this grossly abused and terribly subjective practice. In 47 normal states, determining if a worker was injured on the job isnt largely up to the worker because that would be crazy! These states use objective standards-basically, an independent doctor who makes no money treating workers comp, and who utilizes American Medical Association guidelines. But in California, we dont allow independent doctors to make the judgement. The unions view the rampant abuses as a form of paid time off-a perk for their workers. And heres the proof: years ago, special interest groups including the unions pressured the politicos to make it illegal to use the AMA guidelines. Second, when determining if a worker should get permanent disability payments-a huge slice of Californias crisis-our Orwellian no fault laws encourage the parties to go fight it out for months in court as the trial lawyer lobby insisted so it could get rich off the system. As a result, 50 percent of all California workers comp cases hit court. In Utah, where independent doctors determine permanent disability, 4 percent of cases hit court. The end result is, truly injured workers get screwed and are forced into court for months, and everybody else from doctors who look the other way to lawyers who string cases along, sucks the system dry. Reforms youll hear touted this week by less-than-honest media spinners like Los Angeles state Sen. Richard Alarcon, such as capping some medical fees and chiropractor visits, wont end the crisis. The reason highly irritated Costco CEO Jim Sinegal delivered 150,000 signatures from Costco workers demanding reform to the capitol this week is that businesses-and now even the workers-are sick of the lying and delaying out of Sacramento. Costco operates in 36 states in the United States, but 70 percent of its workers compensation costs come from California. Thats as good a measure of the level of corruption and wealth-creation inside Californias workers compensation system as any Ive heard. The plain truth is, only by copying how the top-rated states use objective standards will we see major relief. US: California KEYWORDS: CALGOV2002 1 posted on 09/06/2003 1:29:45 PM PDT by John Jorsett Post Reply Private Reply View Replies To: John Jorsett that illegal immigrants pour $1,400 more into Californias economy than they get back, Where does Bustamante think that money they get comes from in the first place? Illegals take jobs, they make some money, they spend some money - but illegals are doing nothing to actually create any wealth. There is no way an illegal who has brought over 5 to 8 kids is paying enough in taxes to pay for what its costing to educate those kids. Also - who does Bustamante think is sending $35 billion to Mexico? It would force Californias hard-hit small and medium-sized businesses, with 20 or more employees, to pay 80 percent of employees health coverage. Companies with more than 200 employees would be forced to pay that for the whole family. He is awaiting word from his mentor his handlers Warren Buffet, Rob Lowe, Ted Kennedy before making a statement. Davis says hell sign SB 18, giving the obscure Native American Heritage Commission the power to stop development on anyones land in California if tribes feel construction interferes with a sacred site anywhere in the region. Another instance of Arnold failing to prove to the voters of Kalifornia that he has their best interests in mind. Arnolds Handlers and Policy Makers: Arnold has said he supports sensible gun-control laws, campaign spokesman Rob Stutzman. In reality Im for gun control, Arnold as reported in The Los Angeles Slimes. Warren Buffet: Billionaire socialist who advises Arnold on economic policies. Shriver is noted as saying to Char...