8/23 Job opportunity at the US District Court, Northern District of CA:
Courtroom Technology Specialist
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/tch/1914895472.html
--erikred
\_ $54k/yr! Damn those overpaid civil servants!
\_ it's really about 70k-80k yr if you factor in things like
planned vacations, ease of work, no doctors bills for ulcers,
9-6 work day, 5 day work week.
\_ Plus no layoff.
\_ you're kidding, right?
\_ Layoffs in public sector have been much lower than private.
In private you get fired, not furloughed.
\_ Layoffs in public sector have been much lower than
private. In private you get fired, not furloughed.
\_ really? what if you're an unionized pilot/stew/maint
\_ What if you're not? I agree with the guy above.
Lots of people should be terminated and should
be glad they were furloughed instead.
\_ Bullshit
\_ Want to post some facts to back that up?
\_ you're the one who made the claim.
\_ http://blogs.sacbee.com/the_state_worker/100817%20Job%20loss%20chart.JPG
http://www.ebudget.ca.gov/pdf/BudgetSummary/BS_SCH6.pdf
Also, being laid off from the State
requires 120 days notice and layoffs
are determined by seniority and not value.
\_ Salary looks about right for the requirements. I know someone
\_ So the State, which employs 300k out of
20M, has had 40k layoffs, this is 13%. The
public sector has had 1.2M out of 20M,
this is about 6%. Thanks for the data.
\_ You are misreading the data.
The 40K layoffs is for State
and local workers both. There
are about 1.8M government
workers when you add in the State
workers in the second chart.
(Source: http://www2.census.gov/govs/apes/09locca.txt
The second chart shows that there are
30K more State workers than in 2006
and only 10K less than the maximum.
Do your math again and get back
to me.
\_ Looks like 4% and 6% then, still not
"much lower."
\_ I think you will want to
recheck your math. 40K/1.8M
is not 4%.
\_ Salary looks about righe for the requirements. I know someone
with a very similar job who makes about $50K. Difference
being she's not a civil servant with all of the benefits
attached.
\_ So of course, the free market is the best way to set
compensation. Because of the magic of the invisible hand,
the most competent people are necessarily in the
highest-paying jobs. Unless they're civil servants, in
which case they're obviously incompetent, overcompensated
pariahs sucking taxpayers dry. Right. -tom
\_ Says Tom, who will rake in $100K/year (in today's
dollars) with free health care for the rest of his life at
around age 60. So you think this Bell city manager deserved
to make $800K/year and retire on $600K/year? He was
overcompensated and did suck the taxpayers dry. I am
dollars) with free health care for the rest of his life
at around age 60. So you think this Bell city manager
deserved to make $800K/year and retire on $600K/year? He
was overcompensated and did suck the taxpayers dry. I am
not sure if he was incompetent, but I do know that if
the position was advertised at that salary he probably
wouldn't have gotten the job despite his UCB undergrad
degree. You can make the same argument for the CEO of any
large company (incompetent and overpaid) _except_ it is not
at the taxpayer expense.
degree. You can make the same argument for the CEO of
any large company (incompetent and overpaid) _except_ it
is not at the taxpayer expense.
Check out the salaries for employees of the City of LA:
http://controller.lacity.org/ssLINK/LACITYP_011307
A "Senior clerk typist" makes $56K, a "Refuse
collector truck operator" makes $64K, a "Maintenance
Laborer" makes $49K, a "Motor Sweeper Operator" makes
$70K. These people do not pay for Social Security or health
http://controller.lacity.org/ssLINK/LACITYP_011307 A
"Senior clerk typist" makes $56K, a "Refuse collector
truck operator" makes $64K, a "Maintenance Laborer"
makes $49K, a "Motor Sweeper Operator" makes $70K. These
people do not pay for Social Security or health
insurance out of these salaries and many of them take
home more money than listed because of perks like
overtime. Now, granted, some positions are underpaid -
like many of the accountants. However, the average pay for
a secretary (senior clerk typist) in LA is only $48K and I
am guessing that her job is more stressful, less secure,
and receives fewer benefits. To wit:
like many of the accountants. However, the average pay
for a secretary (senior clerk typist) in LA is only $48K
and I am guessing that her job is more stressful, less
secure, and receives fewer benefits. To wit:
Disney's job posting for a secretary asks for:
"Ability and willingness to work long hours as needed."
"Ability to be proactive, resourceful, flexible and to
manage a heavy workload."
"Ability to maintain professionalism under pressure."
Pay: $40-60K with an average of $52K
Warner Bros wants:
"Detail oriented with the ability to work well and
maintain professionalism under pressure."
"Must be able to work at a face pace with accuracy."
"Must be able to work under constant deadlines."
Pay: Not listed, but probably about the same
Somehow I am seeing a trend here. Being that my girlfriend
works in entertainment, she will attest that they will
work you to death if possible. A government secretary
(which my sister was for years before going to get her RN)
does whatever work she can and goes home at 5pm.
Sometimes there wasn't enough to do (because she was so
efficient and because they are overstaffed) that her boss
sent her home early. It's one reason she started going
to nursing school while still working full-time: she was
able to get her work done even though she worked only
three days per week. So I wouldn't say that all
government employees are incompetent, but they certainly
set the staffing levels as if they are and yet I've asked
LA (in writing) to fix a mistake on my property tax bill
for 3 years in a row now and when I call I am told:
"Can you call back later? I'm busy right now." WTF?
Take down my number and call me back when you have time.
So, yeah, getting the job done isn't a priority for
some people.
Tom will ask: So why doesn't everyone get a government job
if they are so great? Well, because there is very
Somehow I am seeing a trend here. Being that my
girlfriend works in entertainment, she will attest that
they will work you to death if possible. A government
secretary (which my sister was for years before going to
get her RN) does whatever work she can and goes home at
5pm. Sometimes there wasn't enough to do (because she
was so efficient and because they are overstaffed) that
her boss sent her home early. It's one reason she
started going to nursing school while still working
full-time: she was able to get her work done even though
she worked only three days per week. So I wouldn't say
that all government employees are incompetent, but they
certainly set the staffing levels as if they are and yet
I've asked LA (in writing) to fix a mistake on my
property tax bill for 3 years in a row now and when I
call I am told: "Can you call back later? I'm busy right
now." WTF? Take down my number and call me back when
you have time. So, yeah, getting the job done isn't a
priority for some people.
Tom will ask: So why doesn't everyone get a government
job if they are so great? Well, because there is very
little turnover and once people land a job they stay
there for decades. I also believe that most people don't
really realize what kind of salaries can be made
working for the government. They think it's like it
used to be where everyone pulls down $45K. I can tell
you my sister and I were both shocked when she asked to
get into my company when we had an opening for a senior
secretary and the salary advertised was a _LOT_ less than
she made for the government (like more than 20% less). I
was like "You make _HOW MUCH_?" and she was like "They pay
_THAT LITTLE_? I'll stay put."
really realize what kind of salaries can be made working
for the government. They think it's like it used to be
where everyone pulls down $45K. I can tell you my sister
and I were both shocked when she asked to get into my
company when we had an opening for a senior secretary
and the salary advertised was a _LOT_ less than she made
for the government (like more than 20% less). I was like
"You make _HOW MUCH_?" and she was like "They pay _THAT
LITTLE_? I'll stay put. In other 10 years I'll have free
health care for life." She's 4 years away now (she can
retire at 50) and then she'll collect her "retirement"
while she goes to work full-time as an RN. By then
she'll be making probably $200K/year between the two
salaries and getting free health care on the taxpayer's
dime, too. Then she can retire on her $5K/month
government retirement plus she'll have paid into Social
Security and collect that, too. Sweet! Am I jealous?
Hell yes! Do not anger me, I am dim! Would I have done
that had I known people could take advantage of the
system by double dipping? Maybe so! I think the system
is broken when a person can be a secretary for 25 years
at average salary (or above), switch careers to the
private sector, and then collect two retirements from
the government plus free health care on top of whatever
they manage to save.
\_ 1/10 for content, 0/10 for length.
\_ Working at the UC and taking N contracting jobs is
very standard.
\_ I am a Director at a Silicon Valley company and I make
about 2X what someone in a comparable job makes at the
UC. My wife had a similar experience with HUD and Citi.
As I said before, low skill jobs are higher paying in
the public sector and high skill and management jobs
pay better in the private sector. It is pretty obvious
why this is, if you would pull your head out of your ass.
It would pretty embarassing if a school janitor had to
draw food stamps to make ends meet. Secretaries do not
retire at 25 years, you are full of crap.
\_ You are correct that high-level management jobs pay
more in the private sector. I think a military
general is an example of an underpaid government job.
President Obama is another. However, most government
employees would not be high-level managers in
the private sector. Most government employees are
paper pushers who are overpaid. The fact that
there are a few underpaid positions doesn't change
that fact. Anyone can retire as long as they are
age 50 and have 10 years of service although
there are ways to retire earlier and some plans
make you wait until age 60. Why should a janitor
with the government make more than a janitor in the
private sector?
\_ It is not true that anyone can retire from
Federal service at age 50 with 10 years of
service, where did you get this idea? I checked
what my wife would make if she worked for HUD
for 25 years and got promoted to the top of her
pay and one grade up (GS-14). It would have been
$32k/yr at age 62, which was 25% of what her salary
would be at the time. So 25% of your base salary is
overpaid? Janitors in the private sector are
underpaid but since we use the free market to
set labor values there, that is just the way it
is. Everyone working for the government should
be paid a living wage, imho.
\_ I am not quoting federal retirement. I am
not sure what that is. I am talking about
State and local government.
"The state's current pension system allows
firefighters, Highway Patrol officers, and
peace officers to retire as young as 50
years old and earn 3% of their final
salaries for every year worked. Other
state safety employees may retire at age
55 with a 2.5% multiplier and
miscellaneous employees may retire at age
55 with a 2% multiplier or at age 63 with
a 2.5% multiplier."
(Source: http://tinyurl.com/2db96kp
You can also "buy" years. Other tricks
here: http://tinyurl.com/2ahy8vh
Reform is required. I don't get 401k
matches based on my highest 3 earning years.
Pensions should not be calculated in that
manner either.
Janitors in the private sector are not
"underpaid." They are paid market wages.
Public sector janitors are overpaid. The
government should not pay more than the
private sector. Otherwise, my tax dollars
are wasted. Contract it out. This isn't a
welfare state.
\_ Janitor salaries in the private sector are
artifically depressed by use of
undocumented workers. You can't do that
in the public sector.
\_ Contract it out.
\_ It's no more appropriate for
public entities to be using
undocumented workers through a
contractor than it is for them
to be paying them directly.
\_ I didn't say to use undocumented
workers. I said contract it
out and pay market rate
instead of the inflated
salaries we pay now.
\_ As I said, "market rate" is
artificially depressed by the
use of undocumented workers.
\_ Let's assume this is true.
Surely you are not implying
that all janitors are
undocumented.
\_ no, I'm stating that
the market for janitors
is not free, and thus
"market rate" is
meaningless.
\_ It's not meaningless
if you want to hire a
janitor.
\_ "This isn't a welfare state." We
disagree, that it all. You think that
"the market" determines all value and
I do not. Should we abolish child
labor laws, too?
\_ Safety employees are not "anyone," get
your facts straight.
\_ Safety employees have it better, but
it is still possible for anyone to
retire at age 50 if they buy some
airtime, especially if they buy it
early in their careers. It's not
too hard to do once you go out
and get another job after "retiring."
\_ I don't want a 55 year old cop trying
to wrestle bad guys to the ground, I
fine with them getting a good
retirement at 55 or even 50 after
25 years of service. If you think
being a cop is so great, you should
go be one, I am sure they would
take you. Hardly anyone is willing
to do the job, even with the so-called
overinflated salaries and benefits
you complain about.
\_ the thing about this that I don't like is gov employees who are
utterly convinced that their benefits aren't a part of their salary
and "industry makes more money" just based on pure | paycheck |.
\_ I'm a govt. employee, and I'm well-aware that my benefits are
part of my salary. It's why my salary is lower than market. I'm
willing to make the trade-off for the security, and I don't
grumble about it. Mind you, I'm also not going to ever become
a startup millionaire, so there you go.
\_ 1988: "Mama, I'm gonna move to hollywood and become a star!1!"
\_ I wonder if in 20 years they'll have reality tv shows about
people moving to silivalley and bringing their software
concepts to the world. "If i could dream dot com."
\_ You know, if the TLC and Bravo can make shows about
\_ You know, if TLC and Bravo can make shows about
those idiots flipping houses in Hollywood, I don't see
why a reality show about 70 hour weeks at a Start-up
wouldn't fly. It's not like there's not enough drama
among geeks.
\_ There would have to be the 6 month 120 episode
prequel series to explain all the in jokes.
\_ Aren't they common culture now?
\_ No, but nerds think so because they are so
insular and closed-cultured.
\_ Would the movie "Office Space" do the trick?
\_ So, you want to do a "The Real Office Space?"
something that is apart from ... The Office
and Office Space and 9 to 5; just saying the
jokes people will get are pretty common and all
boil down to dilbert strips. Funny for a couple
of hours maybe; (office space is still a cult
movie). but not for 2 seasons+.
\_ re: univ perks, one of the nice perks is that you can
actually take classes as an employee. Think about the monetary
compensation for that, how much is it per unit post degree to
take a class at 1. as UC and 2. The Top UC? That example just
came to me, I'm sure there are other perks like that.
Oh right another: free gym membership is another have you
seen how much a monthly gym costs? Granted it's not 24 hour
fitness, but still....
Yes I know it still costs for univ employees but there is
a discount.
\_ Courses are still very expensive for staff. RSF is
$420/year for staff, that's not a discount for what you're
getting.
\_ I would pay much more to get the chance to check out
hot teenage undergrads in spandex tights.
\_ A big perk often not mentioned is a car allowance. A lot of
government employees get them: up to $550/month or more.
There are others which are not counted as "salary" including
housing allowance and other subsidies. Some of these can be
very significant (up to 50% of total pay.)
\_ And all of those are also available to private sector
employees. If you think government jobs are so great, go
get one. Oh, forgot, you're too incompetent.
\_ My Company Benefits are BIGGER than yours!
\_ I think we take from this that not all priv sector jobs
are the same vs the uniformity of the .gov benefits.
\_ Yeah I'm really enjoying my car and housing allowance.
Oh, wait.
\_ I would have gotten one if I had known what a scam was
being perpetuated. I was living in the past. I didn't
realize what "New Government" was all about! No point
is getting one now, though, b/c the public is going to
end your gravy train soon enough. Public labor is very
scared and upset by the prospects of this eventuality
now that the taxpayers have caught on. You should be!
"The deal used to be that civil servants were paid less
than private sector workers in exchange for an
understanding that they had job security for life.
But we politicians, pushed by our friends in labor,
gradually expanded pay and benefits to private-sector
levels while keeping the job protections and layering
on incredibly generous retirement packages that pay
ex-workers almost as much as current workers."
--Willie Brown
\_ how do you know when Willie Brown is lying? His lips are
moving.
\_ You're going to say this about anyone who disagrees
with you. Better from a SF liberal Democrat with a
history of supporting labor than a Republican you will
dismiss out of hand. At some point you need to
get your head out of the sand.
\_ No, I'm going to say that about Willie Brown, who
has been well-known as a self-satisfied, self-
promoting scumbag for a long time. Also, elitist;
he declared that "all those clerks pushing papers
and pencils" couldn't move into his beautiful
new City Hall. And he had his limo driver take
him 3 blocks from CIty Hall for a photo op on
Bike to Work Day.
\_ I think that this is true for City of SF jobs, but not
true in general.
\_ priv sector people who hate pub sector jobs so much go fix it
CA Voter initiative the pub jobs away. Ha ha. |
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