Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2009:October:28 Wednesday <Tuesday, Thursday>
Berkeley CSUA MOTD
2009/10/28-11/3 [Industry/Jobs] UID:53476 Activity:high
10/27   See how much tom makes:
        \_ Sure glad I went the private industry route. Where is jkuroda?
           Doesn't he work for the UC as well?
           \_ Wow I can't believe this information is public. It makes me
              glad that I don't work at U.C. either. I make a lot more
              even though I'm much younger than Holub, and this is not
              even counting my stock options.
              \_ I make a lot more too, but I am middle management (as is
                 Tom). What do you do?
                 \_ Code monkey in the EDA industry. I've worked at
                    a startup that got acquired by Synopsis, then a router
                    management software (not EDA) company that got bought by
                    Cisco, and now working at a mid-sized company (again in
                    EDA) in San Jose. In all three cases I made over $100K,
                    without counting stock options. You need a PhD in EDA
                    to make serious money in the $150-170K but I'm just a
                    code monkey who codes routing shit. I'm sorry I can't
                    give you names away or you'll figure out who I am.
                    \_ Obviously if your intention is to acheive the greatest
                       possible monetary compensation, you shouldn't be
                       working for UC.  I would argue that if your basic
                       needs are met and you have a comfortable cushion
                       for discretionary expenses, you should be focusing
                       on factors other than monetary compensation.  How
                       many hours do you work, how long is your commute, is
                       your work satisfying?  A lot of Americans, and in
                       particular a lot of geeks, seem to miss this.  -tom
                       \_ commute ranged between 20-40min one way throughout
                          the three companies I worked at. I work 50HR/wk
                          on average, but there will be 1-2 weeks a year
                          that'll be more like 60-70HR/wk. How satisfying?
                          I read algorithmic papers and do implementations.
                          I don't deal with whining users, so I can't
                          imagine it being worse than sys admin.
                          \_ Personally, I find it important to work for
                             an organization whose overall goals I support.
                             I wouldn't be happy in any role at some random
                             dotcom producing nothing of real value.  That's
                             a personal choice, of course.
                             By the way, I've not been a sysadmin for almost
                             10 years now.  -tom
                             \_ EDA/CAD/routing/optimizer/placement is not a
                                *dot com* internet type of company. Do you
                                even know what EDA means? We use software
                                to build hardware.
                                \_ I wasn't speaking specifically about your
                                   situation.  But I also would find it
                                   less than fulfilling to be in your
                                   business.  I worked for GE for 8 years
                                   and that was probably 6 too many.  -tom
                             \_ Is Google a dotcom producing nothing of
                                real value? Do you use Google? The Internet?
                                \_ I wouldn't work for Google.
                                \_ I wouldn't work for Google.  -tom
                                   \_ Google wouldn't want you. Too old and
                                      not educated in the CS field.
                       \_ What are the retirement benefits like, though?
                          Are you going to be one of those State leeches
                          who makes more from the State after you retire
                          at age 52? If that's the case I would argue
                          $120K is overpaid.
                          \_ I will feed the troll only once on this:
                             earning a pension is no more "leeching" than
                             cashing in stock options is.  It's part of
                             the non-salary compensation package.  -tom
                             \_ Answer my question:
                                Is this pension going to be from age 50
                                until death at something close to (or more
                                than) your regular salary? If so, I would
                                argue that your current compensation is more
                                than fair. Most of us are not getting
                                $120K/year plus health benefits for our
                                retirement starting at age 50. It's not
                                that you are earning a pension. I don't
                                begrudge anyone that. I begrudge people
                                who earn exorbitant pensions whether it's
                                a Golden Parachute or whatever. When I see
                                some State employees retiring at age 50 at
                                more than their full-time salary it makes
                                me sick, especially when they are then
                                rehired at another salary. No one should be
                                paid more after retirement than they earned
                                while working and very few people should be
                                able to collect retirement before age 65.
                                I believe it is fair to retire at age 65
                                at 50% salary and even that is more than
                                most people get. Government workers who
                                were made promises we shouldn't have made
                                and can't keep are strangling government
                                \_ You'll have to get your next meal elsewhere,
                                   troll.  -tom
                                \_ So contract law doesn't apply to
                                   government pensions? How else would you
                                   like to rewrite common law?
                                   \_ It's not that the contract doesn't
                                      apply so much as the State needs to
                                      declare bankruptcy because they
                                      cannot pay it. That's what other
                                      entities do when obligations exceed
                                      the ability to repay them.
                                      \_ The State can easily afford to pay
                                         all of its obligations. Some citizens
                                         may not want to pay, but the potential
                                         tax revenue is available.
                                         \_ You're one of those people who
                                            see every dollar that anyone
                                            earns anywhere as "potential
                                            State revenue" I take it.
                                            Let's raise taxes to 100% and
                                            we will all work for the
                                            government in a utopian society.
                                            The taxpayers did not promise these
                                            pensions to the government
                                            employees and they, rightfully,
                                            refuse to pay for them. It's easy
                                            to give away money if it's not
                                            yours. You can just raise taxes
                                            and get more. It's like magic!
                                            \_ You get to declare bankruptcy
                                               if you are unable to meet your
                                               obligations, not just if you
                                               don't feel like meeting them.
                                               The taxpayers most certainly
                                               did make this promise. They
                                               elected representatives who
                                               signed the contracts. No
                                               different than when shareholders
                                               elect a board to sign contracts.
                                               \_ The State is going broke.
                                                  Hello, McFly! Have you
                                                  been asleep for the last
                                                  two years? When the CEO
                                                  screws up by making
                                                  promises he can't keep, like
                                                  happened at GM or United
                                                  Airlines then the company
                                                  goes BK! The State is in
                                                  the same situation. It
                                                  will take 25% of the general
                                                  fund to fund retirements
                                                  pretty soon. We cannot tax
                                                  our way out of that mess
                                                  without severe repercussions.
                                                  The Feds need to tax us
                                                  to fix the mess they made.
                                                  You can't just raise taxes to
                                                  90% to pay for all this crap.
                                                  However, the State, unlike
                                                  the Feds, *can* declare
                                                  bankruptcy. It's where we're
                                                  \_ Wan to bet? CA is not
                                                  \_ Want to bet? CA is not
                                                     going to declare bankruptcy
                                                     that is just a kook fantasy
                                                     I do hope we cut down
                                                     retirement benefits for new
                                                     hires though.
                                   PS $15k invested each year for 25 years
                                   at a 10% nominal gain (stock market avg)
                                   gives you $2.5M, which is worth at least
                                   as much as a $100/yr for life pension.
                                   \_ First, you are lucky if you see a 10%
                                      gain. It might be that much. It
                                      might be less. Second, how many
                                      employers out there that you know of
                                      are putting 12.5% (15/120) of your
                                      salary into an account for you? Mine
                                      is better than average and it is 8%.
                                      The average is 5.4% according to the
                                      "50th Annual Survey of Profit
                                      Sharing and 401k Plans." Third, to
                                      save $2.5M over 25 years at 10% you
                                      would need to invest $1886 per month
                                      or $22K per year, not $15K.
                                      \_ Private employers pay more, in return
                                         you have to finance your own
                                         retirement. There is risk here, but
                                         you knew that when you decided to take
                                         this route, right? No one was
                                         bellyaching when the stock market was
                                         on a tear, in fact a bunch of morons
                                         tried to privatize Social Security
                                         as well. If you want to try and strike
                                         it rich, work in private industry, if
                                         want security work for the government.
                                         Hopefully this is not news to you.
                                         Your math is correct, btw, thanks for
                                         catching that. I was using 30 years,
                                         not 25. Most UC plans need 30 years
                                         to really get a good retirement.
                                         \_ CalPERS lost a shitload of money
                                            investing in the same crap
                                            everyone else did, except they
                                            have a government backstop.
                                            They need to be held responsible
                                            for the investments they made
                                            *or* else everyone else needs
                                            to be given the same luxury.
                                            Meanwhile, our "safe" Social
                                            Security investments are earning
                                            crap. Damn straight I want my
                                            SS $$$ to invest myself. Why
                                            should State employees get to
                                            invest 12.5% of their salaries
                                            in high-risk, high-return
                                            vehicles while I get almost
                                            nothing on the money my employer
                                            and I am contributing? BTW, I
                                            wouldn't say private employers
                                            pay that much more for most jobs.
                                            Only high-level executives are
                                            grossly underpaid by the government.
                                            I have been browsing the lists
                                            of State and Federal employees
                                            and salaries are much higher
                                            than you'd think.
                                            \_ you're an idiot.
                                               \_ This is a compliment
                                                  coming from you.
                                            \_ State employees are now paying
                                               8% into their retirement, which
                                               they weren't before, to make up
                                               for CalPERS losses.
           \_ Oh, I get it, this database only includes those who made
                \_ See sacbee link above. ALL state employees in that DB.
        \_ I really hope TEDFORD, JEFF is worth what you're paying him
           \_ Donations to the althetic department are up over $10M/yr since
              Tedford was hired, so the answer is yes, he is worth it.
        \_ Brian Harvey makes slightly more than Holub. Both make more than
           Hilfinger. WTF?
           David Patterson makes 345K, the highest I've seen so far. Nice.
           \_ Why is John Canny's salary not higher?
              \_ In the industry, salaries are set by how often you move
                 around; every move gives you an opportunity for an increase.
                 In academia, the same can happen, but people move much less.
                 So academic salaries are often driven by competitive offers;
                 Stanford will offer a package to one of our faculty, and the
                 deans will scramble to match the package (depending on the
                 faculty member).  So faculty salary is partly a function
                 of how interesting the faculty member is to other
                 institutions, but also a function of how much the faculty
                 member is willing to go out and solicit offers for his
                 services.  -tom
           \_ That's because Patterson is worth it.
              \_ According to salary, Mr. Football Coach is more worth it
                 than the RISC guy that brought huge changes and billions
                 of dollars and new opportunities to Silicon Valley.
                 Football rules!
        \_ Why is John Yoo still making $1/4M? Isn't he on sabbatical?
           \_ It's the government. He'll probably earn money until he dies
              even if he never works again.
              \_ No he is still working, he is just on loan to some OC school.
2009/10/28-11/3 [Finance, Politics/Domestic/SocialSecurity] UID:53477 Activity:low
10/27   SAT score and family income:
        \_ Is there any 3D charts showing three variables (income, race, SAT
           score)?  I wonder whether race or income is a bigger factor.  Of
           course race and income are not completely independent, but I'm
           wondering about different income and same race vs. same income and
           different face.
           \_ I'm sure race is a big factor. However, no one is stupid to
              publish it and be called a racist, like that guy in Bell Curve.
              It would be the Satanic Verses equivalent to your career
              these days.
              \_ I think race is a complete non-factor. You don't really
                 believe some races are smarter than others do you?
2009/10/28-11/3 [Reference/Law/Court] UID:53478 Activity:nil
10/28   "Price to PepsiCo for Not Being in Court: $1.26 Billion - Yahoo!"
        This two guys scored it really big.  Who would have thought that a
        company as big as PespiCo wouldn't even show up in court?
2009/10/28-11/3 [Health/Women] UID:53479 Activity:low
10/27   In China, 60% of women with long straight hair get second dates.
        5% of women with short curly hair get second dates. Hmmm..."copy-cats"-win
        \_ 404
           \_ it works for me. Here, try this:
              \_ those are two totally different URLs -- the direct link has "
                 (%22).  The shortcut has those "smart quotes"
                 (%e2%80%9c and %e2%80%9d).  Are you sure it works for you?
                 \_ Safari seems to parse both intelligently. What browser
                    are you using?
                    \_ I just checked in Safari.  It does NOT load the first
                       URL, as it has " (%22).  The correct URL on the server
                       has the "smart quotes." (which matches what the
                       link uses).
                    \_ Firefox, 3.5 on a Mac.
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2009:October:28 Wednesday <Tuesday, Thursday>