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| 2009/8/12-9/1 [Uncategorized] UID:53265 Activity:nil |
8/10 custom steampunk fashion made locally: http://www.steamsociety.com |
| 2009/8/12-9/1 [Academia/StanfUrd] UID:53266 Activity:kinda low |
8/10 Check this out. I went to Google Maps, typed in Pasadena then Animal Shelter.
The first few items are "Caltech Housing", for students. I tried this for
other cities like Berkeley and got real animal shelters. Is this some kind
of lame geek joke from Caltech fraternity students?
\_ Learn to format properly. Caltech doesn't really have fraternities,
they have "houses" which are sort of like dorms, co-ops and frats
all rolled into one. But yeah, this sounds like Tech humor. -Techer
\_ I find it funny. I also find it sad that Berkeley students
didn't do something as funny as this.
\_ Berkeley students are too busy working 80 hour weeks for
Stanford business school students in the sandhill lane biz
incubator.
\_ GOOD ONE. It's true. While Cal is so busy teaching geeky
engineers, The Furd is teaching its students how to
get connected to VCs, to have poise, to look and
talk like execs, and to rule over geeky engineers. Just
compare the # of successful Cal startups vs. Furd startups.
If I had to pick where my angel funds go to, it'd be the
Furds, hands down. Cal seriously needs to WAKE UP.
\_ word, been saying that for years. Cal students
are self selected from people who don't want to wake
up or who think "all that matters is the code".
Whereas really, without marketing or ops or biz dev
your startup goes to hell. But it's not as romantic
or romanticised as the notion of a guy staying in the
labs, never sleeping, never bathing, rockstar coding
to get everything done. Like CyberGod.
\_ Wait, isn't it because of Bush, or Reagan, or Pete
Wilson that Furd p0wns Cal?
\_ Oh, c'mon. Name a Stanford startup that was started
by *undergraduates*. Excite? Stanford teaches its
undergraduates to join startups, not found them.
\_ Name as many UCB startups as Furd startups
by *GRADUATES*. See, it doesn't matter.
\_ Loopt, midomi.
\_ I don't think any of the Units has ever been flooded for a
party. Ricketts for LYFE! South Houses!
\_ Holy crap are there really two Scruves on the motd?
When did you go to Caltech, or was it just for the parties?
\_ ugcs doesn't have a motd? |
| 2009/8/12-20 [Politics/Domestic/Abortion, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA] UID:53267 Activity:nil |
8/10 From Aug 9th minutes:
"Evelyn is resigning as President. Jesse will take over all duties of
the president, temporarily."
So, I've been around for a while (since F03), and seen 3 csua pres-
idents resign now. For those of you who have been here (much) longer
than me, is this pretty common every two years or so? -mrauser
\_ reason(s) for resigning?
\_ <sexist>women</sexist>
\_ http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db=comics&id=1607#comic
\_ You'll never get it!
\_ By hook or by crook, we will.
\_ I will not be NUMBERED!
\_ I'm not really certain. I heard she just said "personal
reasons." -mrauser
\_ pregnant? |
| 2009/8/12-9/1 [Politics/Domestic/California/Arnold, Politics/Domestic/California/Prop] UID:53268 Activity:moderate |
8/12 Thanks for destroying the world's finest public University!
http://tinyurl.com/kr92ob (The Economist)
\_ Why not raise tuition? At private universities, students generate
revenue. Students should not be seen as an expense. UC has
been a tremendous bargain for most of its existence. It's time
to raise tuition to match the perceived quality of the
institution. Good privates are charging $50K/year. UC would be
a bargain at 1/3 that amount. Stop trying to go back to the
taxpayer well.
\_ 35% of the undergrads at Berkeley are Pell Grant
recipients (which means they're amongst the poorest in
the country). Berkeley leads all universities in that
regard; UCLA has a similar number. The purpose of a
public university is to provide educational
opportunities to the public, including those who do not
have the money to attend a private institution. There
is a clear public benefit to giving access to higher
education to this population, measurable in terms of
reduced need for social services by the individual and
his or her family, increased worker productivity,
reduced incarceration rates, reduced population growth,
etc. All these things benefit the state. California is
the center for industry that it is in large part because
of the historical success of the California public
education system. Turn it into Stanford-lite and you'll
find the next boom happening in North Carolina, or Texas,
or Michigan. -tom
\_ Interesting you mention these, because UC tuition and
fees are less than those for Texas and Michigan. UNC's fees
are cheaper. The education-for-all universities are CSUs.
With the existence of CSU there is no need to keep fees
at UC low. Further, Pell Grants are *federal* funds
and federal aid (likely loans) is likely to rise in response.
Chancellor Birgeneau:
"Ironically, it appears that the group that will be most
disadvantaged by our funding challenges are not those who
are truly low income people but rather the State's
middle-income families. Specifically, current federal,
state and university financial aid plans protect the
poor; however, the middle class - that is, those
whose family incomes fall in the $60,000 to $120,000
range - receive limited aid and the current
disinvestment in higher education by the State of
California will only exacerbate their plight."
In this instance, I am not overly concerned about the
plight of the middle class if fees rise. A family that
makes $90K per year, while not rich, will figure it out.
\_ UC is education for the top students in the state,
whether they come from rich, poor, or middle-class
backgrounds. That's its mission, and it's been a
runaway success as an institution and as a benefit
to the state. -tom
\_ You ignored two of my points:
1. Even the chancellor isn't too worried about your
Pell Grant recipients being able to attend UC.
2. There is good reason to believe the at-risk middle
class students will be able to afford an increase in
fees given increased federal aid.
So even with fee increases the best students will
still be able to attend UC. However, without the
fee increases then why would they want to? I want
to protect this institution, but if you want it to
fall to the level of CSU then keep hoping for
government handouts which aren't going to happen.
I prefer to be proactive and if a was a UC Regent
I'd raise the funds we needed outside of government
by partnering with industry, creating a larger
endowment in flush times (UC's is pathetically low),
and raising fees on students. Hoping taxes go up or
down leaves the issue to the whims of others.
\_ Guess what happens when UC raises more money
from industry, grants, and endowments: the
anti-govermnent ideologues use that as an excuse
to further cut state funding. Endowment for UC, in
particular, is at best neutral and at worse negative
in terms of ongoing funding. (Universities with
large endowments are also getting pummelled right
now. Harvard had 9% of the combined endowment for
all US universities, and they just did 300
mandatory retirements and 270 layoffs).
The question is, how can you fund a great state
university? The question isn't how to turn a
great state university into a private university.
We know how to do that, and it's a bad idea. -tom
\_ Why is it a bad idea? I think UC should look
to the privates for an idea of how to run a
great university. Paying more attention to
your students, but charging them for the
privilege, is a great business model. I
reiterate that UC views its students like an
expense and they should view them like a
source of revenue. UC has a lot of students
who wish to attend - more than it has spots.
If it cannot survive in that environment it
has a problem. Believe me, the students won't
miss that extra $5K/year a decade after graduation
but they will appreciate what it gets them.
Don't you find it odd that the schools that
charge higher fees have more satisfied students
that donate more back to the school rather
than being angry at paying a higher tuition?
I know I had mediocre experiences at both UCB
and UCLA. I would've bitched a lot about fee
increases while in school, but now I realize it's
necessary and I'd pay a few $K more per year
for my kid to have a better education (or
even to preserve what we have). Otherwise,
send my kid to JC or CSU and save a lot of $$$
and just send my kid to UC for grad school.
\_ As I said, it's not like the privates are
any paragon of virtue; they're mostly in
financial straits just as dire as UC. You
can assert that you don't believe in public
education; that's your opinion and you're
entitled to it. But to suggest that,
essentially, California "should" give up
on public education, because of Harold Jarvis,
begs a whole lot of questions, the primary
one being, would California and its citizens
be better off if UC were privatized? It
seems highly unlikely to me. -tom
\_ Let's say for sake of argument that UC
was privatized and tuition was the same
as it is now. Would that be a problem?
Is it the cost you have a problem with
or with privatization? I never argued that
UC should be privatized - only that fees
need to be raised to help defray costs. I
think this is true whether UC is public or
private, because there isn't anywhere else
to get money from. Howard Jarvis has nothing
to do with it and has been a favorite
target of the liberal community for
some time now, but is mostly a red
herring because California's tax
revenues are about the same as they
were pre-Prop 13. You'd better find
another target to pick on, because Prop
13 will *NEVER* be repealed. Ever.
Property owners vote and there will be
a revolution before Prop 13 is repealed,
so better start working on Plan B,
which is to increase income tax rates.
\_ If UC were privatized, its fees would
be like Stanford's. -tom
\_ Please answer the question:
Are you opposed to privatization
or to high fees? If it was public
but expensive, would that be
acceptable? What about private,
but cheap?
\_ You'll have to find someone else
to beat that straw man for you.
-tom
\_ I'm sorry, but privatization
was *your* straw man. I
never mentioned it.
\_ The part of Prop 13 that applies to
commercial owners will be modified or
overturned in the next five years. You\
can take that to the bank.
\_ Possibly, but it's all the same pool
of money. If commercial owners
pay higher taxes they will sell
properties and property values
may fall, which results in less
tax. Tenants will pay more for
leases and will have to raise
prices or close some businesses.
This is what people don't
realize. You can't abolish Prop 13
and have 25% income tax and 10%
sales tax and full employment and
expect to keep as much business
here as exists now. Something has
got to give and it will find a
new equilibrium at around the old
one. There are no secrets here.
Tax revenues are going to be
about what they always have been.
We need to live within that stream
of revenue or grow it by growing
the economy faster than inflation.
\_ You like to use a lot of words
without actually attempting to
prove your point. You're just
reciting. -tom
\_ It is simple economics. You
don't just raise taxes and
expect the status quo to
continue.
\_ And you don't just cut
services and expect the
status quo to continue.
California's success has
been much more a result
of investment in public
education than it has
been a result of ridiculous
ideas about low taxes. -tom
\_ Depends on what the
services you cut are.
That's up for debate.
So don't cut education and
cut something else.
\_ The CA budget is
basically education,
health, and prison.
Only prison can be
reasonably cut. -tom
\_ They can *all*
be reasonably cut.
You just have
to decide where
and how.
\_ Per capita real revenues are down since
Prop 13 and have been trending down for
a long time.
\_ Down 16% but higher now than in 1981
according to at least one study.
However you want to frame it, they
haven't changed drastically. Per
capita revenue is down because we
have a huge influx of people who
don't contribute much to the
economy but take more than their
share from it.
\_ Down 16% is huge. The entire higher
education system is less than 16%
of the overall state budget. First
you claim that per capita is not
down, then you admit that it is.
Which one is it?
\_ Down 16% AT THE MOMENT, but
overall up since 1981. In
flush years (like <DEAD>dot.com<DEAD>
height) it was up. Right
now, in one of the worst
years in a long time, it is
down. Overall, it's about
the same, which is amazing
when you consider the huge
influx of low income and
paid-under-the-table
workers flooding into
California over the last 3
decade which drags down any
per-capita figures.
\_ I agree with you in general, but it isn't like fees haven't
increased. They have increased dramatically since I was
a student in the early 90s. Has spending really outpaced
it by so much? I'd be interested to see a breakdown of
where UC money has come from and gone to over the last 15 years
or so. (anyone know if/where this might be available?)
\_ The UC used to be free, before Reagan decided to punish the UC
for not supporting his policies. The question goes to the heart
\_ If you can't blame Bush, blame Reagan...
\_ Facts are such bitter things.
\_ They sure are. The only reason CA is in its current
budget mess is because of Gray Davis and the Dem
majority state legislature has done jack squat for the
past two decades. Oh yeah, and the unions getting
Arnold's budget props defeated.
\_ In the last 25 years, the governor has been
Republican for all except 4 years. Gray Davis
(from Stanford, by the way) wasn't a great
governor, but it is the ideological position of
Wilson, Schwarzenegger, and the Republicans in the
legislature which has whittled away at UC's funding.
The budget requires a 2/3rds majority to pass, which
is why the Republican minority can hold up the
process as long as they do. -tom
\_ Maybe the Democrats should be more bi-partisan
in their thinking.
\_ That is pretty funny coming from a Republican.
\_ I'm not a Republican. However, consider
this:
The minority party doesn't have the
votes to institute any major changes.
All they can do, politically, is dig in.
It is up to the party in power to reach
out to the minority party to pick up
the few votes it needs for a compromise.
If the Democrats cannot appeal to *any*
Republicans then they are taking the
wrong stance and are just being stubborn.
You can't blame the Republicans for
anything, because they don't have
enough votes to do anything even with
fairly broad Democratic support.
\_ "If you are not with us, then you are
with the terrorists." Does that ring a
bell with you at all? In CA, the GOP
has been able to screw up state finances
with a small minority, because passing
a budget requires a 2/3 majority. What
the Democrats should be trying to do is
over turn this law.
\_ Democrats need 6 votes in the Assembly
and 2 votes in the Senate to have
this supermajority. If they cannot
convince even that few opponents to
see their point of view then they
aren't trying very hard to find a
compromise. I know you'd like to
see a tyrrany of the majority,
but I rather like this current
system because it represents the
interests of more Californians.
\_ Did Reagan institute the first tuition at the UC
or didn't he?
of what public education is for. Is it intended to be a chance
for everyone to have an opportunity to better themselves, or
is it just for the wealthy to entrench their children's position
in society? Californias wealth was founded on the former, btw,
since a lot of talent goes to waste if you just don't educate
well the bottom 80%.
\_ This is when you have to decide what your goal is. If it's
to educate everyone cheaply, then UC can do that with the
cuts. If the goal is to be a world-class institution, then
tuition will have to rise. I think that since Cal State
exists to educate the masses at *very* affordable tuition,
then it's okay to raise fees at UC to something like 1/2
of a comparable private school. I realize fees have gone
up a lot, but it's apparently not enough if cuts have
to be made. The cost of education has gotten very expensive.
I agree that it's too expensive in many instances. However,
that's the econimic reality. If you graduate from a school
like Boston College you will have over $150K in debt. UC
will cost $50K. The State cannot afford to make up the
difference any longer.
\_ Sure we can. The difference today is that we have decided
to spend a whole bunch on putting people in jail, so we
have no money left over for college. As Clark Kerr put it:
The universities are "bait to be dangled in front
of industry, with drawing power greater than low
taxes or cheap labour." It is this vision that has given
California an educated workforce and high standard of
living and we are at risk of losing it. Your point about
the CSU system is well noted, but we are also making it
harder and harder to afford as well.
\_ I agree that the prison system is too expensive, but
not all of that is a choice. If people wouldn't
commit so many crimes we wouldn't need so many
prisons. California is not the white middle-class
paradise it was in the 1950s and as the demographic
has shifted and gangs have grown in prominence more
prisons are necessary. My point was that education
costs have increased faster than inflation for
whatever reason. Privates have responded by jacking
up their tuitions to beyond-reasonable levels and
therefore if UC wishes to compete it must do the same.
A lot of people blame Prop 98 for taking money from
UC, but Prop 98 allocates money to education for all!
If UC is to be an elite university for only the
best (as it was envisioned) then it has to raise tuition
or cut enrollment. Spending on entitlements is only
going to grow to a larger share of the budget
short-term. Raising taxes is not an option. Increasing
tuition is most fair, because it places the burden
on those getting the advantage instead of on everyone.
By "taxing" students via tuition increases, that is
effectively a middle-to-upper class tax increase
since those students will be middle-to-upper class
taxpayers as they pay their loans back (or their
parents already are if daddy is footing the bill).
An added benefit is that the UC has to be more
accountable to students and parents paying the
bills than it does to the anonymous taxpayer and I
believe the quality of education will increase.
This goes back to the idea of considering students
to be sources of revenue (as privates do) versus
annoying expenses (as UC does).
\_ Why is raising taxes not an option? Is there any
sane reason California does not have an oil excise
tax, for example? -tom
\_ Raising income taxes is not an option because the
voters are opposed and would rather see
expenditures cut. We can debate an oil excise
tax, but it's moot because it won't solve the
budget problem anyway.
\_ No single thing will solve the budget crisis.
The ridiculous stand against all conceivable
taxes is the primary cause of the budget
crisis. -tom
\_ It's not a stand against taxes so much
as it is a stand against current levels
of spending. We've already increased
some taxes (like the sales tax) and now
it's time to make some cuts. That
the legislature screwed around on the
budget for so long and didn't do anything
in a time of crisis highlights the need to
cut government. No one is eager to give
more money to those people to spend given
what they've done with what they have
and raising taxes at a time when so
many are already living with layoffs and
pay cuts will create resentment. Most
of us are already squeezed and giving
our last few pennies to the legislature
isn't high on our list of priorities.
However, anyone so inclined can feel free
to mail in a check to help out.
\_ It absolutely is a stand against taxes.
When people are asked which services
they want to cut, the only service
which people want to cut is prisons.
The only reason the legislature screwed
around for so long on the budget is
that Arnold and the Republicans refused
to even consider proposals which
raised taxes, and we have a budget
situation which cannot be solved
without raising taxes. (Despite
there now being a "balanced" budget,
it's only through accounting tricks
such as paying this year's final
paycheck on July 1 next fiscal year;
we're going to be in the same
position figuring out the 10-11
budget). -tom
\_ Not true. People want to cut lots
of things, including more
furloughs for State employees,
less healthcare for illegal
immigrants, and cutting
enrollment at UC. Arnold gave the
voters a chance to avoid cuts and
the public said they want cuts!
So make the cuts! I think cuts
are overdue and if they are
really hurt then we know we cut
deep enough. There hasn't been a
good housecleaning in a while.
\_ Horseshit. Arnold's initiatives
were complete garbage, and
they wouldn't have stopped a
single furlough. They generated
almost zero money! The initiatives
were just a way to further
handicap the legislature's
ability to do anything about
the budget (by shackling them
with more and more rules). -tom
\_ "Cutting enrollment at UC"?
Are you serious here or just
trolling? Show me the polls where
CA voters want to cut UC enrollment.
\_ I'm a CA voter and I'm in
favor.
\_ The Legislature "screwed around" because
of the obstructionist minority GOP.
\_ You mean the party who actually
listened to the voters instead of
their own agenda?
\_ Really, there was an oil excise
tax and a tobacco tax on the
ballot? I must have missed
that proposition. -tom
\_ Hmmm. The legislature put
the initiatives on the
ballot. The legislature is
comprised mainly of...?
Prop 1A was a tax hike and
was voted down. Maybe you
missed that.
\_ Prop 1A was not a tax hike.
It included continuing an
existing tax in a future
year (would have had no
impact on 09-10 finances),
and a whole bunch of stupid
shit about the rainy day fund.
-tom
\_ If it doesn't pass, then
taxes will go down. Of
course it's a tax hike.
It was voted down.
\_ You're an idiot. -tom
\_ Nice retort. I
expected better
from you, but I
guess this is
all you have in
the face of the
facts.
\_ The next time
I'm at the top
of a hill, I'll
remember that
not going down
can be considered
a hike. -tom
\_ Oh come on.
The proposition
was to raise
taxes in future
years. Without
it, taxes will
decline. So it
is a tax hike.
What's even
more damning is
that voters
didn't even
want to vote
for the status
quo, let alone
new higher
taxes. In
effect, they
voted for a tax
*decrease*.
\_ If the prop
were only
about the
tax, you
might have
a point.
It wasn't
and you
don't. I
would have
voted for
continuing
the tax; I
voted
against
the rainy
day shit.
-tom
\_ People are actually not committing any more crime,
we are just locking them up longer for the crime
that they committ. Crime rates are way down from
the 70s and 80s. This is true even in states that
did not get tough on crime, so maybe it is time to
rethink our sentencing policies. I can sort of see
your argument as long as we are willing to lend
even poor students enough money to fund their
education.
\_ The crime rate is back down to the level of
the early 1970s, which is still above that of
the 1950s and 1960s. Do you really want to
return to the crime rate of the late 1980s
and early 1990s? That is what will happen if
we rethink our sentencing. It seems to me that
our sentencing is working very well as the tough
on crime stance coincides with a reduction
in crime. The problem isn't the number of
people locked up. It's how much we are paying
to incarcerate them. California pays almost
60% more per prisoner than other large states.
That cost has to come down.
\_ We should ship them to prisons in India.
Outsourcing something like this isn't
rocket science like R&D, and Indians
are super cheap.
\_ I actually agree with outsourcing. Maybe
not India (too far for visitation) but
to states that do this more cheaply
(and better) than we can.
\_ Maybe you missed the part where I said that
even states that have lower incarceration rates
than CA saw a similar drop in crime. Correlation
does not imply causation. It is almost certain
that there are other factors which lead to all
or most of the drop in the crime rate.
\_ Maybe, maybe not. I can tell you that
releasing a lot of inmates isn't going to be
*good* for the crime rate. Most of them
end up back in jail when released anyway.
\_ We wil find out pretty soon, won't we?
The murder rate is down, even though
we are in a recession. I don't think that
violent crime is going to go up, though
perhaps the amount of drug use will.
\_ Murder rate is down b/c so much of the
riff-raff is in jail! (possibly)
\_ The incarceration rate has not
increased from 2008-2009, but the
murder rate went down.
\_ Welcome to the reality that not everyone should go to college.
if they did, our standard of living would go down, nobody to
run the services well.
\_ Yes I agree! We should also legalize illegal immigrants who
are the backbone of Los Angeles. The Angelinos have it good,
everything is so cheap there and gourmet tacos like Lolo,
Mercedes Hair of the Dog Cantina are everywhere and they're
just called... tacos!
\_ Wtf? Dude the czech woman who cuts my hair is an Ex Model
from EU, Think I want her to go to college so I can get
some ugly fat woman cutting my hair?
\_ What are they called elsewhere?
\_ In Northern Cal, Mexican food is gourmet food. In LA,
it's just called food.
\_ We have gourmet Mexican and Mission Burritos, we go
the whole gamut. I think LA does too.
\_ I get 'mexican food' from the little holes in the wall.
what is this 'gourmet' you speak of? |