Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2008:December:03 Wednesday <Tuesday, Thursday>
Berkeley CSUA MOTD
2008/12/3-8 [Uncategorized] UID:52151 Activity:nil
12/3    Tycho channels the BOFH:
2008/12/3-10 [Computer/SW/OS/OsX] UID:52152 Activity:nil
12/3    The Apple Mac OS X Internet Technologies group (iChat, iCal, Safari,
        Mail, CoreServices filesystems/OSServices/networking, ...) is looking
        for interns.  IMO, successful candidates have a passion for CS,
        demonstrated excellence / ability to get stuff done, are proficient
        with the Mac platform, can learn quickly, and have a keen interest in
        one of the above areas.  For more info: newgrad/oldgrad
        job listings,  Cupertino.  Send me your resume. -jctwu
        \_ Also, iTunes usually picks up a Cal undergrad. There are a lot of Cal
           EECS grads on the team (don't know if we have any CS grads). -abe
        \_ If there had been an OS X box for people to cut their teeth on then
           CSUA members might have a leg up over at least some candidates.
2008/12/3-8 [Politics/Domestic/RepublicanMedia, Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:52153 Activity:nil
12/3    When politicians lose elections, they often claim it's because the
        voters were stupid.  Here's an interesting new survey:
        - 35 % of McCain voters got 10 or more of 13 questions correct.
        - 18% of Obama voters got 10 or more of 13 questions correct.
        - McCain voters knew which party controls congress by a 63-27 margin.
        - Obama voters got the 'congressional control' question wrong by 43-41.
        - Those that got 'congressional control' correct voted 56-43 for
        - Those that got 'congressional control' wrong voted 65-35 for Obama.
        Audiences of Fox News got 'congressional control' correct 64-25
        Audiences of CNN got 'congressional control' correct 48-38
        Audiences of Network news got 'congressional control' correct 48-39
        Audiences of print media got 'congressional control' correct 52-37
        Audiences of MSNBC got 'congressional control' correct 55-35
        Audiences of talk radio got 'congressional control' correct 61-29
        \_ How many of those McCain voters still believe that one's
           sexual inclination is a matter of CHOICE despite scientific
           studies and consensus from the scientific community, and that
           gayness can be cured by God?
        \_ I'm not surprised. Average and mediam McCain voters are much much
           older and thus have more time to absorb information. Having that
           said, there is a big distinction between knowledge and
           intelligence. McCain voters may know more about congressional
           control but their stubborness and intelligence says something
           else completely about them.
        \_ This says more about the media than about the voters
        \_ I remember when a majority of Bush voters in 2004 thought that we
           had found WMD in Iraq.
        \_ It helps to have a link to the survey.
           \_ But if he linked to it, the biases would become way too obvious!
            \_ DingDingDingDing!
        \_ I agree with you, it is the Media's Fault that McCain lost. All
           you Republicans need to do is swing hard right, nominate Palin
           and do everthing you can to get your message out. The best way
           to do this is send hundreds of emails directly to reporters,
           correcting all the errors and biases in their reporting.
2008/12/3-9 [Computer/Companies/Google] UID:52154 Activity:low
12/3    How many shares of GOOG do you still hold tom?
        \_ Not as many as I'd like to.  -tom
           \_ Good luck. I'm shorting. It's going to drop to 240 before
              the end of the year. Good luck tom.
              \_ My time horizon is 5+ years.  -tom
              \_ Cover that short yet?  -tom
           \_ Tom, are you a physical coward?
                \_ He rides a unicycle and also I think he mountain bikes some.
                   In my opinion I think that disqualifies him from physical
                   \_ I don't mountain bike, but I mountain unicycle.
                      But why does it matter?  -tom
           GOOG was three hours from being charged with being a monopoly.
           \_ good post. Earth to tom, you still thinking of 5 years?
              You seriously think the economy will improve in 5 years
              given the fact that we're deep in recession?
              \_ I seriously believe that GOOG will do better than the rest
                 of the economy in the next five years.  -tom
2008/12/3-7 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:52155 Activity:nil
12/3    Chambliss (R) wins in GA: [wash. post]
2008/12/3-9 [Finance/Investment] UID:52156 Activity:nil
12/3    Another chief investment strategist says bottom is IN!
        UBS analyst says S&P may rally to 1,300 by end of 2009!
        omfg I'm gonna be *RICH*!
        \_ Everytime I listen to some "expert" I get screwed. Lately,
           I've been doing the opposite and have been doing marvolously.
           Don't listen to the experts man. Do the opposite.   -week trader
           \_ I made 50% this week even with a slightly down day today.
              Pretty easy when we keep bouncing off of the same lows in a
              range. When financials tanked on Monday I doubled my
              position in them (I had bought into Citibank last week). Life is
              good. It will suck when the markets stabilize and I will have
              to convince myself that a 12% up year was "good". I can make
              that in a good day right now. Why wait for 2009? The worst
              thing for the stock market is for it to stay flat, which
              thing for the stock market is for it to stay flat, which I
              is what I think will happen when things settle down after
              the "big buy back in" that the scared money will do once almost
              the "big back buy in" that the scared money will do once almost
              all the big gains have already been made. "You make most of
              your money in a bear market -- you just don't know it at the
              time." I am now 88% in equities, holding 12% cash to buy on
              more dips, although I have no problem trading out for a profit
              and waiting for a lower re-entry point. I'm also waiting for
              oil stocks to dip some more before going in there. Almost there,
              but not quite yet. I think it will take some (negative) earnings
              reports to scare the prices down more. People are still too
              bullish on oil.
              \_ You are just playing the roulette table now. Good to be
                 in the market though, your biggest risk is missing out
                 on a big week.
                 \_ Except this roulette table is guaranteed by the Fed.
                    Up another 6% today. It's good to have skeptics like
                    you, though. When everyone is bullish it will be time
                    to sell.
2008/12/3-8 [Computer/HW/CPU] UID:52157 Activity:kinda low
12/3    Are any of you CSUA alums working at Intel?  Is it possible that we
        might be able to hit Intel up for donated/partially donated (reduced
        price) Core i7 Xeons when they come out?  Who would be a good person
        to contact about something like that?  We're of course willing to put
        out for them - perhaps we'll tattoo an Intel logo on toulouse if that's
        what they want :-p  -- steven
        \_ fyi my wife recently started there and they eliminated the employee
           discount on CPUs a few months ago
        \_ I work at Oracle and I can get you 25% discount on our license
           and bronze level support. How many CPUs are you thinking? With
           a 25% discount, each CPU support is only $75,000/year.
           \_ Why are you guys so obsessed getting an i7-based machine?
              You look like salivating hardware dweebs, rather than people
              with a plan.
              \_ Well, this is the CPU-Salivating Undergrad Association,
                 isn't it?
                 \_ Drool
              \_ I love Oracle and Larry Ellison is my master. We're trained
                 samurais and we'll obliterate anyone who makes us lose
                 face. Shut up and buy Oracle. You have no choice.
              \_ Because they're shiny.  What, are you saying we should buy old
                 stuff?  Because, as best I can tell, buying ghetto/janky
                 equipment is most of the reason our stuff goes down so often.
                 Why so much hate?  Do you want us to buy more secondhand or
                 outdated gear that can't stay up for more than five minutes
                 at a time?  If you're so convinced we don't have a plan,
                 why don't you suggest one?
                     \_ stop having  a "cpu centric view" instead of a
                        "what problem are you trying to solve" centric view.
                        what is the csua's hardware budget? is you want
                        an i7 to play games, that makes logical sense although
                        seems politically objectionle, but all this stuff about
                        virtual machines and zfs etc doesnt make sense.
                        you arent trying to replicate the ocf on a single
                        \_ I don't imagine we'd buy Core i7 Xeons for the
                           purpose of playing games.
                           \_ So what are you going to do? Linear algebra
                 \_ On the contrary, it's often the shiny stuff that doesn't
                    have all the bugs worked out. Old/outdated and shiny/new
                    are not the only options here. I sense a third choice...
                    \_ Seconded.  I was around when we bought a shiny new dual-
                       Xeon for (the current) soda.  FreeBSD didn't support
                       some of the HW, so now we run Linux and it breaks all
                       the time.
                    \_ Seriously.  You can go out today and spend < $1000 and
                       get a brand new computer with quality timetested
                       hardware that will fulfill csua's hardware needs
                       10x over.  Spend a little more and you can get some
                       lower end machines to play with/learn how to sysadmin.
                 \_ Ironically, right now the two machines with the most problems
                    are keg and scotch.  Those are our two remaining FreeBSD
                    machines.  Soda has a month of uptime, which is definitely
                    not great, but it's certainly not crashing all the time.
                    I do like FreeBSD but it's certainly not being the all-star
                    right now.  I suspect that scotch has a hardware problem but
                    keg is unclear whether it's a hardware or software problem.
                 \_ Ironically, right now the two machines with the most
                    problems are keg and scotch.  Those are our two remaining
                    FreeBSD machines.  Soda has a month of uptime, which is
                    definitely not great, but it's certainly not crashing all
                    the time. I do like FreeBSD but it's certainly not being
                    the all-star right now.  I suspect that scotch has a
                    hardware problem but keg is unclear whether it's a
                    hardware or software problem.
                    \- the freebsd machine with problems isnt fbsd7+multicore
                       is it? we are trying to solve a diffcult problem with
                       that combination and would be interested in other cases.
                       although i assume this is ancient hw with bugs. btw in
                       my fairly long experience linux does worse things on
                       buggy hw than freebsd. like corrupt data without
                       detection. this may have gotten better in linux-recent
                       [i admit linux-recent doesnt drive me insane daily
                       like it used to]. --psb
        \_ I miss those days when soda was a 20 * 386DX-25 machine.
           \_ I certainly learned a lot.  I remember when it was a big
              deal that I had soda up for 100 days in a row.  (wow!)
              But that setup was due to necessity; I agree that a big
              honking hardware purchase isn't really necessary.  Start
              by trying to get experience developing and sizing a
              scalable configuration--that'll be more valuable than
              throwing a huge piece of hardware at the problem.  -tom
              \_ Agreed. Sysadm is NEVER about getting the equipment and
                 the people you need. You almost NEVER get the resources
                 you requested for. Sysadm is taking what you have at hand
                 and try to make the best out of it while not bringing down
                 the organization.
                 \_ Scotch - broken. Keg - overloaded, and 16 disks amounting
                    to about 5TB of data; Lifesaver - dead. Making do with
                    broken computers is not a viable plan. Buying a server now
                    means it will be obsolete in a few months, and will be a
                    waste of money.
                    waste of money. --toulouse
                          \- so is buying a $3k computer to do a job
                             better done by 2 $1k computers.
                    \_ High end brand new computer components depreciate a
                       hell of a lot faster than middle of the road workhorse
                       components.  Cheap computer hardware is insanely fast
                       these days.
                    \_ Look, it's your network to run, I'm not going to tell
                       you how to do it.  But I think you probably haven't
                       looked at where your bottlenecks are; does CPU really
                       matter to the services you're running?  I always buy
                       servers with CPUs two and three generations removed
                       from the cutting edge, unless the application will
                       be CPU-bound, which it rarely is.  A server doesn't
                       become obsolete just because someone came out with
                       a new chipset; it becomes obsolete when it no longer
                       works for your application.  -tom
                       \_ I rarely agree with tom because he's such a
                          stubborn ass but this is one time I'll say...
                          +1 to tom's advice.           -anon sysadm
                       \_ I have to agree with Tom on this. The CPUs and
                          memory are unlikely to be the bottleneck. --jwm
                          memory speed are unlikely to be the bottleneck.
                          A slightly older chip would is likely to be fine
                          and more stable. --jwm
                          \_ On the other hand, the CSUA is a place for people
                             to experiment and try out the new stuff, even if
                             it is to a certain extent at the cost of
                             some reliability. -ausman
                             \_ "we want to 'try out' a really fast
                                processor because it is cool" isnt a
                                serious project. this smacks of geekery
                                not leadership. now if you spent a modest
                                amount on say a ps3 to get exposure to the
                                cell, i could see that might be interesting
                                [eventhough more likely than not such a
                                purchase would be to "test" video games].
                    \_ Computers are always obsolete "in a few months".
                        \_ Intel doesn't release a shiny new architecture that
                           finally catches up to AMD in many respects every few
                           \_ Have you been hiding the last few processor
                              cycles?  AMD hasn't exactly been on top of
                              its game.
                           \_ What difference does it make?  How would the
                              services be different on a new processor?
                              Are CSUA people writing assembly code?  This
                              isn't like a new game console where the
                              supported applications are totally different;
                              the applications won't care what the underlying
                              processor architecture is.  -tom
2008/12/3-8 [Recreation/Computer/Games] UID:52158 Activity:nil
12/3    Anyone want to buy an AppleTV or Wii (w/ Rockband) from me? Unopened
        and I'm willing to negotiate price. --toulouse
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2008:December:03 Wednesday <Tuesday, Thursday>