12/1    Just curious -- what do you guys generally use soda for? Why do you
        log on? Personally, I use it to keep a presence on IRC and AIM/gTalk
        at all times, and mess around with some Python programming (been
        setting up Twisted and such so I can play with making an irc bot).
        --toulouse
        \_ I use it to post SHIT, er, I mean, spill my guts about the company
           I work at... I use it to post to http://glassdoor.com and valleywags.
           My company has banned http://glassdoor.com's IP.
        \_ Website hosting, and, believe it or not, reading the motd; it does
           occasionally provide good or interesting info. --erikred
           \_ Speaking of this and that, what are the odds of turning cgi
              back on? --erikred
              \_ We'll turn it on for anyone who 1) wants it 2) knows
              how to write secure CGI 3) is willing to promise not to
              hose 4) emails root@  It's disabled by default just
              because that's the easiest way to get 0wned but I'm OK
              with having individual users use it.  -- Steven (VP)
        \_ motd, wall, nwriting, providing a place outside corporate firewall
           to do things no the internet (diagnose net problems, download stuff
           the firewall/virus-scanner stupidly  breaks)
           \_ Second all that, plus it gives me a place to goof off that my
              corporate security can't sniff, since everything is encrypted.
              I scrupulously avoid posting to blogs on the company wire, though
              I often read them.
              I often read them. Oh, I also use it as my repository of a
              bunch of stuff like phone numbers, that I want to be able to
              get to from everywhere.
        \_ trn remains the best newsgroup reader, and soda remains the easiest
           way to use it
           \_ there's something useful on usenet still?  I throught it was
              drowned in spam, porn, warez, and inanity.
              \_ Some (moderated) algorithm groups still have the luminaries
                 routinely.
              \_ obviously, you don't use
                 alt.binaries.erotic.caucasian.lolita.paolo-pollux.likes
                 \_ Newsgroup alt.binaries.erotic.caucasian.lolita.paolo-pollux.\
                    likes does not exist!
                 \_ Newsgroup alt.binaries.erotic.caucasian.lolita.likes
                    does not exist!
                    \_ alt.sex.stories.incest.
           \_ Berkeley's Usenet server is likely to be turned off soon.  -tom
        \_ Many decades ago I used it to finger hot women on Soda and
           uclink, uclink2, ocf clusters, etc. Nowadays, I just use it
           to forward joe@csua.berkeley.edu to my Gmail account. I still use
           my csua email on my resume. Nothing speaks louder than having
           BERKELEY in your email address. Go Beah!!! Speaking of hot
           women, toulouse... is it still fashionable to date Asian women
           these days?
           \_ dunno, but if so, I might be pretty fashionable soon. :D
              --toulouse
        \_ motd and personal website. I used to use soda for email and usenet,
           but mostly I've switched my email to gmail and have stopped reading
           usenet.

12/2    Thomas Sowell is awesomely cantankerous in his most recent column
        I love this line: Working in a homeless shelter is widely regarded as
        "community service" as if aiding and abetting vagrancy is necessarily
        a service, rather than a disservice, to the community.
        \_ What a pompous idiot is a pompous idiot!  What a shocker!  And
        \_ Wow! A pompous idiot is a pompous idiot!  What a shocker!  And
           look!  Nazis!  Hitler!
        \_ For chrissake.  A great deal of homelessness is due to untreated
           mental illness.  How about this:  "treating heart disease is
           aiding and abetting unhealthy lifestyles..."
        \_ The Hoover Institude is not paying him to write reasonable,
           thoughtful opinion pieces where he deals fairly with the root
           causes of whatever the hell he's writing about this week.

12/1    Goddamnit stop stomping the motd.  Half the time I post here some
        idiot who is deadly afraid some motd stalker might FIGURE OUT WHO
        THEY ARE OH THE HORROR hand some stupid homemade motd editing script
        and the nukes my changes.  Stop it already you dumbasses.
        \_ Just FYI, today is 12/2
         \_ I like to live in the past

12/2    Article 1, Section 6
        No Senator or Representative shall, during the Time for which he was
        elected, be appointed to any civil Office under the Authority of the
        United States, which shall have been created, or the Emoluments whereof
        shall have been encreased during such time
        \_ Stop stomping my changes.
           \_ I didn't.  Learn to edit motd.
              \_ Yes you did. I used vi, which locks the motd.
                 \_ I think that the reality of the motd is that we can't
                    rely on advisory locks for access control.  We should
                    be using scripts to diff and merge changes to a local
                    copy, which can be used to re-add clobbered changes.
                    This is what I use and I never have any issue and don't
                    care if someone stomps me.  There's an extremely low
                    chance that I clobber someone myself, while I can
                    easily restore other people's clobbers.
                    \_ The only reason not to lock the motd is because you
                       are being some paranoid idiot afraid that someone
                       is TRACKING YOUR CHANGES.  If that's the case I don't
                       really care if your writes get nuked.
                       \_ Yes but you see, with this system it's effortless
                          for me to un-nuke them.  No cooperation from you
                          is required.
                 \_ Yah, I use vi too.  It informs me when the file has changed
                    before I write.  I *never* overwrite anything that was
                    changed in the meantime. -op
                    \_ Okay, maybe it wasn't you, but someone stomped my
                       changes.

12/2    1000 lines about Vmware.  have you even tried to install
        Vmware 2.0?
        \_ if it's about messing around with virtualization at home, I've done
           quite a bit of tinkering already with VMWare, VirtualBox, etc.
           Again, CSUA-sanctioned virtualization is waiting on a better server,
           and Steven's free time. --toulouse

12/2    Would people be in favor/opposed to a Web interface to MOTD in
        the hope that it might allow more new people to use it?  It
        would be authenticated against Soda but anonymized (to prevent
        spam).  Thoughts?  --steven
        \_ I think its a good idea and one I've wanted to look into for a
           long time but what I think makes the motd so ... interesting.. is
           the anonymity aspect to it.  I think that having webforums that
           aren't anonymous and moderated would be of great benefit (job
           postings don't need anonymity), but you need to have that
           no-holds-barred, big-breast-loving, mormon-antagonizing ability
           that anonymity provides somewhere.  It sounds like a fun project.
           Lets build it over winter. ;) -mrauser
        \_ Just build it and see how much traffic you get. dbushong's
           http://csua.org (different than http://csua.com) is a shot at it.
           See how popular it is.
           \_ lol spam. A web interface would have to authenticate with soda
              somehow, and there's no guarantee that that will stay unlogged
              (or indeed, that it could be forced by the powers that be to
              be logged). /paranoia
              \_ We could just as easily track changes to this motd with some
                 kernel hacks or just filesystem notifications or a million
                 other ways.  There's at least some trust involved already, and
                 anything I set up would be as anonymous as possible. --steven
                 other ways.  There's at least some trust involved already,
                 and anything I set up would be as anonymous as possible.
                 --steven
        \_ Personally, this libertarian style motd that's been running
           for 2 decades or so have proved to be... interesting. I'll
           be equally interesting when we move to a socialist monitored
           motd where "the man", errr, steven tells us what we can and
           cannot say. ASSASSINATION! NEGROS! <insert offensive stuff here>
           \_  I have no intentions of changing or moderating in any way the
               MOTD itself. --steven
        \_ Are you going to track editors? What happens if someone
           starts a death threat? What happens if someone dies from
           using motd? Are you going to be liable for monitoring or
           not monitoring the motd?
           \_ Same as it works now.  Use at your own risk / bring thick skin
              --steven
        \_ Clarification - different from http://csua.com in that it is more
           aligned towards active reading / posting rather than archival
                \- why dont you create this "web based forum" and then
                   "let the market decide". i think this is pointless.
                   its like saying "how about replacing wall with
                   something like a "wall client" so people dont need
                   to log into soda ... if only there were such a thing.
                   \_ I only asked because I'm a newcomer and I value your
                      guys' opinions.  Of course I could just go do it, but I
                      wanted to ask advice first. --steven
        \_ edit motd with vi like a real man
           \_ real men use emacs: http://xkcd.com/378
        \_ I am in favor of it. You should be aware that the motd, being
           a mostly anonymous free speech zone, can be controversial. It has
           been complained about in the past. -ausman
           \_ I (think I) understand that :) --steven
        \_ you need to explain what you mean. there is a "web interface to
           motd browsing" at http://csua.com. my inclination is: if you can leave
           everything as is but add something, then do whateever you want.
           but if you are going to change it to web only, that is a giant lose.
           web browsers are not editing environments. on the other hand
           it is reasonable to be able to read the motd via the web [and this
           already exists]. and frankly it's not reasonable to claim this
           will be anonymous. regardless of what you say, when you make it
           trackable to IPs, anonymity is gone [unless you takes the
           obvious cumbersome steps to soem how edit via TOR while not using
           that connection for logins etc]. put be down for "opposed"/
           "it already exists".
           that connection for logins etc]. put me down for "opposed"/
           "it already exists". --psb
           \_ I don't see how anonymity provides a benefit to the CSUA, and if
              "leaving everything as-is" means that the half-dozen long-gone
              alumni can troll stupidly and argue about how to indent the text,
              I don't see how that provides a benefit to the CSUA, either.
                -tom
              \_ Utility has very little to do with the MOTD. Organic processes
                 like this sometimes provide good food for thought, but this is
                 a side-effect, not their purpose. Still, as far as labs for
                 thought go, I think it "works." --erikred
                 \_ It works for undergrads more than grads. Grads donate
                    money and give advice on dating and offer jobs.
                    Undergrads on the other hand don't offer much to grads.
                    Actually they're worth about $2000/head, that's how
                    much bonus I get for referals.
                 \_ It works for who?  10 people who haven't set foot in
                    Soda Hall in 5+ years?  For it to work it has to
                    work for the CSUA's primary constituency, which is
                    current undergraduates.  -tom
                    \_ UG get something from the connection to the alumni.
                       If nothing else, donations for machine upgrades. Also,
                       job offers and company presentations. -ausman
                       \_ That's my point--there's no connection to the alumni
                          in a forum that undergrads don't use.  -tom
                          \_ Except I have foot in Soda Hall. In fact, I think
                             that is the reason we are seeing some UG
                             involvement on the motd. If it weren't for the
                             motd I would have stopped logging into soda a
                             long time ago. So the connection, while indirect,
                             does exist. -ausman
        \_ I don't think a web interface to MOTD makes sense.  I think you
           should probably just kill MOTD and replace it with a web-based
           forum.  Its time has passed.  -tom
           \_ Agreed. I've setup http://groups.yahoo.com/BerkeleyCSUA
              \_ http://community.livejournal.com/ucberkeley/3185418.html
              Let's all join this group. Har har har.
              \_ I don't like killing things people use actively
        \_ I'm against it. http://csua.com is good enough for motd IMO and I don't
           share Steven's weird dislike of web forums. I love 'em. motd isn't
           going away, in any case. motd already works, and there's absolutely
           no need (IMO) to effect any sort of change to it. --toulouse
           \_ I have a feeling if we tried to go to a forum, the crew here
              would stay here.  I'm trying to have some connection between
              alums/neophytes.
              \_ Basically no undergrads lurk here, to my knowledge. It's taken
                 me two years to look into motd; the interest (in motd, not in
                 connecting with alumni) IMO does not have inertia to sustain
                 itself. Perhaps an alternative is to introduce people to motd
                 at GM3, and again during future GM1s? I should put a link to
                 http://csua.com on the site. Pardon me while I do so... --toulouse
              \_ Coexisting doesn't seem like a bad option to me.
                 \_ Except that part of the idea should be to create a shared
                    undergrad/alumni community.  If the alumni really care
                    about wall/MOTD, they certainly have the resources to
                    set them up on their own.  -tom

12/2    http://www.cnbc.com/id/28010476
        Chief market strategist says a "very very very strong rally" is coming,
        +25% to +40% starting ~ Dec 15, ending in July '09.
        GODDAMMIT I'm going to make BUX!!1
        \_ Cool, free money machine!  What could go wrong?  I am dumping all
           of my savings into QQQQ right now.
           \_ ^QQQQ^GOOG
        \_ http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/12/2/102214/940/743/668445
           The average bull market goes up 40% in its first year.
           \_ ...if you could predict the day it starts going up, which
              you can't.  -tom

12/2    Joke: CA passed a law for bigger cages. What are they going to
        do with the smaller cages?
        http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2008/11/californias-spl.html
        \_ Yes, that makes sense.  The state with the most progressive civil
           union laws will cage gays.  Sure.
           \_ It's a joke son.
              \_ A stupid joke. That ignores reality.
               \_ So a frog walks into a bar, slaps down a hundred dollar
                  bill saying "give me a beer."  Bartender hands over a beer
                  and, thinking "what does a frog know anything about
                  money?" says "That'll be $100 please."  The frog gives
                  him the money and starts drinking the beer.  As he's sitting
                  there the bartender starts to feel a bit guilty about
                  ripping the frog off, so he makes some smalltalk.  "We don't
                  get many frogs around here" he says and the frog replys
                  get many frogs in here" he says and the frog replys
                  "At prices like that I'm surpised you get anyone."
                  \_ A rabbi walks into a bar with a purple frog on his
                     shoulder.  The bartender says, "wow, where'd you get
                     that?"  The frog replies, "Brooklyn!  There's hundreds
                     of 'em."
               \_ And old man goes to confessional and says "Father, I'm
                  80 years old, I've been married for 55 years but last
                  night I had sex 6 times with 18 year old twins"  The
                  priest asks  "Ok.  How long has it been since your
                  last confession?"
                  "Oh I've never been, I'm Jewish father."
                  "Then why are you telling me?"
                  "Are you kidding, I'm telling everyone!"
               \_ Q. What's brown and sticky?
                  A. A stick

                  Two muffins are sitting in an oven.  One looks to the other
                  and asks, "Dude, is it getting really hot in here?"
                  The other replies, "HOLY SHIT!  A talking muffin!"
                \_ Knock knock.
                 \_ MOOOOOO!
           \_ What would make sense is to cage Mormons. I mean, they're
              already living in an overly sheltered world anyways, what
              difference will it make?

12/2    for sodan parents:
        http://www.telegraph.co.uk/global/main.jhtml?xml=/global/2007/06/15/nosplit/ftmaman115.xml
        \_ OH yes I believe this. American parents are TOO laxed and spoil
           their children. This is reflected with the fact that American
           people are loud and self absorbed and it's always about
           ME ME ME have it my way or no way. Lame. French >>> Americans.

12/2    You might have noticed the shitty uptime. Keg went down, and upon
        coming back up, immediately died again. It's up -- for now --, but
        who knows how long that will last! Politburo will be discussing this
        at tomorrow's meeting. Steven will also be sending an email shortly
        on the state of our equipment. More later. --toulouse

12/2    for sodan parents:
        http://preview.tinyurl.com/3cxtgm [telegraph.co.uk]
        \_ OH yes I believe this. American parents are TOO laxed and spoil
           their children. This is reflected with the fact that American
           people are loud and self absorbed and it's always about
           ME ME ME have it my way or no way. Lame. French >>> Americans.
           \_ Can't agree more.  --- parent of 4-yr-old and 2-yr-old
        \_ Why would I want my children to grow up and be Cheese Eating
           Surrender Monkeys?
           \_ For one, you'll have a more enjoyable parenthood for the first
              20 or so years of their lives.
              \_ and be bitterly wondering in a super cheap retirement home
                 why your kid is such a rank and file lower middleclass java
                 monkey too quiet to be noticed and too scared to speak up to
                 make it into mgmt.