Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2008:August:07 Thursday <Wednesday, Friday>
Berkeley CSUA MOTD
2008/8/7-10 [Computer, Recreation/Media] UID:50804 Activity:nil
8/6     Is NBC broadcasting the Olympics OC live? If not, where can I
        watch it live? Don't tell me the internet. ;)
        \_ I heard it's 8pm Friday PDT.
2008/8/7 [Science/GlobalWarming] UID:50805 Activity:nil 75%like:50803
8/6     Happiness is a clean RPG.  Was cleaning my RPG last night, and my kids
        wanted to watch.  So we talked about RPG safety, etc. (RPG is
        disassembled for cleaning).  The discussion turned to linear and
        rotational momentum, chemical vs. nuclear explosions, energy stored in
        a spring, etc.  Lotta fun. RPG into American Abraham tanks. Fun!
        \_ they won't learn respect until the fire the thing
           \_ They'll have to wait until they're a little older. -op
              \_ And this is the basis for responsible ownership that will
                 make the difference between responsible citizenship and
                 tragic accidental statistic later in their lives.
        \_ ^gun^RPG^penis
           \_ You get chemical explosions from your penis?!?
2008/8/7-13 [Uncategorized] UID:50806 Activity:nil
8/7     beheading people is now a meme:
        \_ banning knives next.. then sticks.. !!
          yeah.. liberals leading to new way of offing people..
        \_ The suspect stabbed the cops when they were trying to handcuff
           him?  What, it didn't occur the them that a guy carrying around
           a severed head might be armed?!?
2008/8/7-13 [Transportation/Car/Hybrid] UID:50807 Activity:moderate
8/7     JD Power dependability study:
        "Toyota's Prius hybrid was the top-ranked vehicle in the compact car
        Hybrid cars are not inherently less reliable.
        \_ But how will it be in 10 years? 15? Will it end up in a
           scrap heap sooner than a gas car?
           The Prius compared to a Camry or Accord (or Chevy Malibu)
           * more expensive, and also costs taxpayers with rebates
           * worse crash test ratings
           * less comfortable (less room, especially in the width, rear),
             no seat height adjustment, no telescoping steering column.
             \_ "headroom is cavernous and there's a tad more rear-seat
                legroom than in a Camry or Ford Crown Victoria."
           * batteries and electronics have their own environmental cost
           * Prius is slower, has poor handling and worse braking. (This
             is also a safety issue.)
             \_ Prius has higher peak torque at lower RPM as well as lower
                curb weight than even Camry V6 and Accord V6.  It can
                accelerate faster from low speed.
                curb weight than Camry 4-cyl and even Camry V6.
                accelerate faster from standstill.
                \_ It's still slower overall though.
                   \_ Yes, 0-60mph at 10.4sec.  But the Prius was never meant
                      to be a performance car.
           * Prius looks weird.
             \_ Maybe that's one compromize Toyota had to make in order to
                achieve a Cd of 0.26 with a 5-passenger car.
           In summary: people buy it to impress other people with their
           supposed environmental concern.
           \_ Why are you comparing interior room of a compact car with that
              of mid-size cars?  If the Prius were as big as Camry or Accord,
              it wouldn't be a compact car, would it?
              \_ I don't really care how it's classified since the real world
                 distinction doesn't matter much.  The Prius has a longer
                 wheelbase than most compacts and it costs a ton more than most
                 compact cars.  It is a fair bit bigger than a Yaris.
                 If you compare it to a Mazda 3 or VW Jetta it still loses out
                 on price and performance.  The new VW TDI isn't cheap but
                 at least performs much better than Prius with similar MPG.
                 IRS announced a $1300 credit on those now...
                 By the way:
                 "The 2008 Toyota Prius is a full-featured *midsize* car..."
                 \_ Hmm.  Wheelbase, right?  Let's see:
                    Civic Sedan:        106.3in wheelbase
                    Prius:              106.3in wheelbase
                    I guess by your logic the Civic Sedan is also a mid-size
                    car then.

                    Civic Sedan:        wheelbase 106.3in
                    Prius:              wheelbase 106.3in
                    I guess by your logic the Civic Sedan is a mid-size car

                    And the cost, right?  Let's see:
                    BMW M3 Sedan:       $53800 MSRP
                    Prius:              $21500 MSRP
                    I guess by your logic the M3 Sedan is an extra-full-size
                    car then.
                    I guess by your logic the M3 Sedan is an extra-extra-full-
                    size car then.

                    VW TDI?  Do you mean the 2009 Jetta Diesel?  Let's see:
                    Jetta Diesel:       29 city, 40 hwy, 33 combined
                    Prius:              48 city, 45 hwy, 46 combined
                    Similar MPG?  Well, if you say 33 and 46 are similar ......
                    (And how much is a gallon of diesel again?)
                    Similar MPG?  Well, if 33 and 46 are similar ......

                    \_ I don't know that you can trust the EPA estimate for
                       this car with the "revised EPA procedures".  VW claims
                       a lot better, and it got AMCI certification for
                       38 city/44 hwy. Ok, so not as good as a Prius with
                       more expensive fuel. But, it is a normal car with
                       much better performance (more fun to drive) and I
                       think more luggage space.  And a bit cheaper.
                       It will emit more CO2 though.
           \_ By "rebate" do you mean the fed tax credit?  That already ended
              for the Prius last year.
              \_ Ok. Weird. They still have tax credits for non-Toyotas.
           \_ Is it possible that someone could buy it because of a genuine
              environmental concern? I don't own a car, mostly because of
              a genuine environmental concern and I seriously doubt that my
              lack of car ownership impresses anyone.
              \_ Well maybe they just don't know and want to feel good about
                 it.  Marketing tells us that hybrids are wonderful for the
                 environment.  Your lack of a car is far better than having
                 a Prius.  Tons of people at my silicon valley work bought
                 Priuses.  Very few of them would bike to work.  But they
                 feel like they are saving the environment because they have
                 a hybrid.
                 \_ I used to ride the Line M bus across the San Mateo Bridge
                    to go to work.  I did that for 5yrs.  But when my son
                    started going to daycare, I went back to driving.  -- OP
              \_ I bought a Prius out of genuine environmental concern.  I'm
                 my late 30s, have a wife and two kids and a soccer-dad
                 in my late 30s, have a wife and two kids and a soccer-dad
                 minivan, and I leave work early everyday to pick up my kid
                 from daycare, and I take my kid to the office when daycare is
                 on holidays.  So whatever flashy car I get is not going to
                 help me impress any hot women or anyone else.
                 on holidays.  So even a flashy car is not going to help me
                 impress any hot women or anyone else.  And since I carpool
                 with my kid, I don't need a hybrid to use the carpool lane.
                 -- OP
           \_ Pretty much everyone I know who bought one did so for the
              carpool lane privilege.
           \_ The Prius acccelerates as well as most 4 cylinder cars and
              handles better. Are you thinking of the old Prius?
              \_ Not really... not compared to a gas Camry for instance.
                  "Wow, this is a strikingly slow car."
                  \_ From the very web page that you cited:
                     "Given the leisurely nature of most motorists'
                     acceleration habits, many will only occasionally notice
                     the Prius' power deficit."
                     "a 0-60-mph sprint of 10.4 seconds.  Given the leisurely
                     nature of most motorists' acceleration habits, many will
                     only occasionally notice the Prius' power deficit."
                  "Crummy steering feel "
                  \_ From the very web page that you cited:
                     "It is, however, tremendously easy to turn at any speed,"
                  "Sub-limit brake response is awful "
                  "Base model's soft suspension and fairly skinny,
                  economy-based tires allow marked cornering lean and
                  noseplow." (from your link)
                  \_ From the very web page that you cited:
                     "Everyone should be happy with the ride comfort, which
                     provides a buttoned-down, big-car feel to a lightweight
                     car. Compared to fuel-efficient compact cars, the Prius
                     feels almost Lincoln-like as it softly damps road
                     \_ A soft dampened ride is what 60 year old women want.
                        In fact, the entire car sounds perfect for a 60 year
                        old woman. For people who like to drive it's hideous,
                        but Prius doesn't claim to be a driver's car. It
                        just claims to save fuel, which it does. I wouldn't
                        buy one. In fact, I wouldn't drive one if you gave
                        it to me for free.
                 \_ "slow"?  Depends on the situation.
                    Camry 2.4 4-cyl:    161 lb-ft @4000rpm, curb wt. 3307lb
                    Camry 3.5 V6:       248 lb-ft @4700rpm, curb wt. 3483lb
                    Accord EX:          162 lb-ft @4400rpm, curb wt. 3408lb
                    Accord EX V6:       254 lb-ft @5000rpm, curb wt. 3567lb
                    Prius:              295 lb-ft @0-1200rpm, curb wt. 2932lb
                                        (not counting torque from engine)
                    Now imagine starting from a red-light.
        \_ I have no problems with hybrids or even electrics (see Tesla) if
           they are regular cars with a different engine and drivetrain.
           The Prius is different just to be different and the people who
           drive them *want* to be seen as different. It's actually a pretty
           shallow and feel-good thing. I think it's that same appearance
           which is more important than any actual environmental concern.
           Now that more manufacturers are making hybrids that otherwise
           look and act the same as any other car I don't see a point to buying
           an ugly and underperforming POS like a Prius.
           \_ So why is Prius still the #1 selling hybrid when there are
              a bunch of good hybrids like the Camry Hybrid and SUV hybrids?
              \_ Because those cars don't say "HEY LOOK I DRIVE A HYBRID".
                 It is also cheaper than a Camry Hybrid.
                 \_ Yeah, CAMRY, really impresses WOMEN!!! Women with BABIES
                    \_ Exactly his point. People drive Prius for shallow
                       reasons instead of Camrys.
                       \_ More or less shallow than people who buy sportscars?
                          \_ People who buy sportscars aren't claiming to
                             be saving the world by doing so.
                             save the world.
           \_ I have no problem with Prius or Prius drivers. I have problems
              with people who live in FUCKING SOUTHERN CAL. Dumb asses
              who drive 2-3 hours a day in LA. All that PLASTIC LOOK and
              BOTOX additicts and BEVERELY HILLS WANABES and SUPERFICIAL
              assholes living in HUGE MCMANSIONS and drive 2-3 HOURS a
              day in/around LA. LAME!!! I also think people who
              drive the fucking ugly Accord Hybrid are dumb. I mean,
              who the fuck pays that kind of money to drive a fucking
              Accord Hybrid with pretty much the same MPG as regular
              Accord with extra 100HP? Why don't you spend that money
              on a sports car? Fucking LAME TARD. FUCK I want to
              key scratch all fucking dumb ass Accord Hybrids in Pasadena.
              Stupid dumb asses. I guess they're so used to being told
              they're stupid that they don't GET IT anymore.
              \_ Bad troll, no cookie.
2008/8/7-10 [Finance/Banking, Finance/Investment] UID:50808 Activity:nil
8/6     The Financial Times has published an excellent series of articles on
        the root causes of the current financial crises and suggestions of
        what to do next (not light reading):
        \_ didn't the FT publish an article a few months ago about
           ROGUE COMPUTERS that forced Moodys to grade bonds as AAA ?
           \- people you want to read and listen to who are not as well-known
              as WBUFFET: Bill Gross, Martin Wolf, Md El-Erian.
        \_ root cause == real estate bubble, infection of monetary institutions
                         with bonds backed by real estate
           solution == stuff the bad bonds and future mortgages into FNM/FRE
                       and bill the taxpayer for any losses
           who benefited == finance guys, real estate agents, mortgage brokers
                            \_ also: conservative ideologues who use the
                               governmental debt they manufactured as an
                               excuse to cut government services.  -tom
                               \_ There are more government services now
                                  than ever before.
2008/8/7-10 [Politics/Domestic/California/Arnold] UID:50809 Activity:nil
8/6     Why should offshore drilling be a federal issue? Why not just let the
        states whose shores are involved decide whether they should allow
        \_ For the most part, they already do.
        \_ Because they have these weasel words in the Constitution that
           allow for broad federal control, like "general Welfare",
           "common Defence", and "regulate Commerce".
        \_ What happens when drilling off the Oregon coast causes a massive
           spill that floats over to NoCal?
           \_ the governator sends the CA nat'l guard to invade
2008/8/7-13 [Science/GlobalWarming] UID:50810 Activity:nil
8/7     McCain Oil Plan: Full of holes (realclearpolitics)
2008/8/7-13 [Transportation/Car/RoadHogs] UID:50811 Activity:nil
8/7     Russians naively buy American SUVs for their off-road capabilities and
        get into trouble. Hilarious!
        \_ This is funny!  Those SUV drives don't know off-roading.  1. Lock
           the differentials, or apply the gas and the brake at the same time.
           2. Put a piece of wood under each wheel.
2008/8/7-13 [Uncategorized] UID:50812 Activity:nil
0~8/7   Hamlet the Facebook Feed:
2008/8/7-13 [Transportation/Motorcycle] UID:50813 Activity:nil
8/7     "Ninja" Sighting Shuts Down NJ School
2008/8/7 [Uncategorized/Profanity, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Troll] UID:50814 Activity:nil
8/7     nsfw fist-to-shoulder
2008/8/7-13 [Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:50815 Activity:nil
8/7     A victory for Texans!!!
2022/07/02 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2008:August:07 Thursday <Wednesday, Friday>