8/7 JD Power dependability study:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080807/ap_on_bi_ge/autos_dependability
"Toyota's Prius hybrid was the top-ranked vehicle in the compact car
segment."
Hybrid cars are not inherently less reliable.
\_ But how will it be in 10 years? 15? Will it end up in a
scrap heap sooner than a gas car?
The Prius compared to a Camry or Accord (or Chevy Malibu)
* more expensive, and also costs taxpayers with rebates
* worse crash test ratings
* less comfortable (less room, especially in the width, rear),
no seat height adjustment, no telescoping steering column.
\_ "headroom is cavernous and there's a tad more rear-seat
legroom than in a Camry or Ford Crown Victoria."
http://www.edmunds.com/toyota/prius/2008/testdrive.html
* batteries and electronics have their own environmental cost
* Prius is slower, has poor handling and worse braking. (This
is also a safety issue.)
\_ Prius has higher peak torque at lower RPM as well as lower
curb weight than even Camry V6 and Accord V6. It can
accelerate faster from low speed.
curb weight than Camry 4-cyl and even Camry V6.
accelerate faster from standstill.
\_ It's still slower overall though.
\_ Yes, 0-60mph at 10.4sec. But the Prius was never meant
to be a performance car.
* Prius looks weird.
\_ Maybe that's one compromize Toyota had to make in order to
achieve a Cd of 0.26 with a 5-passenger car.
In summary: people buy it to impress other people with their
supposed environmental concern.
\_ Why are you comparing interior room of a compact car with that
of mid-size cars? If the Prius were as big as Camry or Accord,
it wouldn't be a compact car, would it?
\_ I don't really care how it's classified since the real world
distinction doesn't matter much. The Prius has a longer
wheelbase than most compacts and it costs a ton more than most
compact cars. It is a fair bit bigger than a Yaris.
If you compare it to a Mazda 3 or VW Jetta it still loses out
on price and performance. The new VW TDI isn't cheap but
at least performs much better than Prius with similar MPG.
IRS announced a $1300 credit on those now...
By the way:
http://www.edmunds.com/toyota/prius/2008/review.html
"The 2008 Toyota Prius is a full-featured *midsize* car..."
\_ Hmm. Wheelbase, right? Let's see:
Civic Sedan: 106.3in wheelbase
Prius: 106.3in wheelbase
I guess by your logic the Civic Sedan is also a mid-size
car then.
Civic Sedan: wheelbase 106.3in
Prius: wheelbase 106.3in
I guess by your logic the Civic Sedan is a mid-size car
also.
And the cost, right? Let's see:
BMW M3 Sedan: $53800 MSRP
Prius: $21500 MSRP
I guess by your logic the M3 Sedan is an extra-full-size
car then.
I guess by your logic the M3 Sedan is an extra-extra-full-
size car then.
VW TDI? Do you mean the 2009 Jetta Diesel? Let's see:
Jetta Diesel: 29 city, 40 hwy, 33 combined
Prius: 48 city, 45 hwy, 46 combined
Similar MPG? Well, if you say 33 and 46 are similar ......
(And how much is a gallon of diesel again?)
Similar MPG? Well, if 33 and 46 are similar ......
\_ I don't know that you can trust the EPA estimate for
this car with the "revised EPA procedures". VW claims
a lot better, and it got AMCI certification for
38 city/44 hwy. Ok, so not as good as a Prius with
more expensive fuel. But, it is a normal car with
much better performance (more fun to drive) and I
think more luggage space. And a bit cheaper.
It will emit more CO2 though.
\_ By "rebate" do you mean the fed tax credit? That already ended
for the Prius last year.
\_ Ok. Weird. They still have tax credits for non-Toyotas.
http://www.irs.gov/irs/article/0,,id=176409,00.html
\_ Is it possible that someone could buy it because of a genuine
environmental concern? I don't own a car, mostly because of
a genuine environmental concern and I seriously doubt that my
lack of car ownership impresses anyone.
\_ Well maybe they just don't know and want to feel good about
it. Marketing tells us that hybrids are wonderful for the
environment. Your lack of a car is far better than having
a Prius. Tons of people at my silicon valley work bought
Priuses. Very few of them would bike to work. But they
feel like they are saving the environment because they have
a hybrid.
\_ I used to ride the Line M bus across the San Mateo Bridge
to go to work. I did that for 5yrs. But when my son
started going to daycare, I went back to driving. -- OP
\_ I bought a Prius out of genuine environmental concern. I'm
my late 30s, have a wife and two kids and a soccer-dad
in my late 30s, have a wife and two kids and a soccer-dad
minivan, and I leave work early everyday to pick up my kid
from daycare, and I take my kid to the office when daycare is
on holidays. So whatever flashy car I get is not going to
help me impress any hot women or anyone else.
on holidays. So even a flashy car is not going to help me
impress any hot women or anyone else. And since I carpool
with my kid, I don't need a hybrid to use the carpool lane.
-- OP
\_ Pretty much everyone I know who bought one did so for the
carpool lane privilege.
\_ The Prius acccelerates as well as most 4 cylinder cars and
handles better. Are you thinking of the old Prius?
http://preview.tinyurl.com/6h6stg
\_ Not really... not compared to a gas Camry for instance.
http://www.edmunds.com/toyota/prius/2008/testdrive.html
"Wow, this is a strikingly slow car."
\_ From the very web page that you cited:
"Given the leisurely nature of most motorists'
acceleration habits, many will only occasionally notice
the Prius' power deficit."
"a 0-60-mph sprint of 10.4 seconds. Given the leisurely
nature of most motorists' acceleration habits, many will
only occasionally notice the Prius' power deficit."
"Crummy steering feel "
\_ From the very web page that you cited:
"It is, however, tremendously easy to turn at any speed,"
"Sub-limit brake response is awful "
"Base model's soft suspension and fairly skinny,
economy-based tires allow marked cornering lean and
noseplow." (from your link)
\_ From the very web page that you cited:
"Everyone should be happy with the ride comfort, which
provides a buttoned-down, big-car feel to a lightweight
car. Compared to fuel-efficient compact cars, the Prius
feels almost Lincoln-like as it softly damps road
imperfections."
\_ A soft dampened ride is what 60 year old women want.
In fact, the entire car sounds perfect for a 60 year
old woman. For people who like to drive it's hideous,
but Prius doesn't claim to be a driver's car. It
just claims to save fuel, which it does. I wouldn't
buy one. In fact, I wouldn't drive one if you gave
it to me for free.
\_ "slow"? Depends on the situation.
Camry 2.4 4-cyl: 161 lb-ft @4000rpm, curb wt. 3307lb
Camry 3.5 V6: 248 lb-ft @4700rpm, curb wt. 3483lb
Accord EX: 162 lb-ft @4400rpm, curb wt. 3408lb
Accord EX V6: 254 lb-ft @5000rpm, curb wt. 3567lb
Prius: 295 lb-ft @0-1200rpm, curb wt. 2932lb
(not counting torque from engine)
Now imagine starting from a red-light.
\_ I have no problems with hybrids or even electrics (see Tesla) if
they are regular cars with a different engine and drivetrain.
The Prius is different just to be different and the people who
drive them *want* to be seen as different. It's actually a pretty
shallow and feel-good thing. I think it's that same appearance
which is more important than any actual environmental concern.
Now that more manufacturers are making hybrids that otherwise
look and act the same as any other car I don't see a point to buying
an ugly and underperforming POS like a Prius.
\_ So why is Prius still the #1 selling hybrid when there are
a bunch of good hybrids like the Camry Hybrid and SUV hybrids?
\_ Because those cars don't say "HEY LOOK I DRIVE A HYBRID".
It is also cheaper than a Camry Hybrid.
http://preview.tinyurl.com/5gjcvj
\_ Yeah, CAMRY, really impresses WOMEN!!! Women with BABIES
\_ Exactly his point. People drive Prius for shallow
reasons instead of Camrys.
\_ More or less shallow than people who buy sportscars?
\_ People who buy sportscars aren't claiming to
be saving the world by doing so.
save the world.
\_ I have no problem with Prius or Prius drivers. I have problems
with people who live in FUCKING SOUTHERN CAL. Dumb asses
who drive 2-3 hours a day in LA. All that PLASTIC LOOK and
BOTOX additicts and BEVERELY HILLS WANABES and SUPERFICIAL
assholes living in HUGE MCMANSIONS and drive 2-3 HOURS a
day in/around LA. LAME!!! I also think people who
drive the fucking ugly Accord Hybrid are dumb. I mean,
who the fuck pays that kind of money to drive a fucking
Accord Hybrid with pretty much the same MPG as regular
Accord with extra 100HP? Why don't you spend that money
on a sports car? Fucking LAME TARD. FUCK I want to
key scratch all fucking dumb ass Accord Hybrids in Pasadena.
Stupid dumb asses. I guess they're so used to being told
they're stupid that they don't GET IT anymore.
\_ Bad troll, no cookie. |
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