Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2008:July:23 Wednesday <Tuesday, Thursday>
Berkeley CSUA MOTD
2008/7/23-28 [Uncategorized] UID:50657 Activity:nil
7/23    No wonder no one recognized Karadzic: ( jpg)
2008/7/23-28 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:50658 Activity:nil
7/23    When did the National Enquirer start reporting stories that are true?
        \_ Oh even the Weekly World News included the odd true story.  (In
           the WWW news' case, usually as a 1 paragraph blurb.)
        \_ Quite a while actually.  They even win real awards every now
           and then.  Of course they also do tons of crap as well.
           CHILD!" story? Or the "BUSH BOOZE CRISES" one?
           \_ i hope its not true.  you have to pretty incredibly awe
              inspiring worthy of study and fodder for comedy show jokes
              for the next 10 years to have an affair when you are a
              mainstream presidential candidate.  they always get caught.
2008/7/23-28 [Reference/History/WW2/Germany, Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:50659 Activity:moderate
7/23    See, I told you he was HITLER!
        \_ I thought Obama was a Marxist. Is he Hitler, too?
           Obamarxhitler just doesn't have the same ring as Bushitler, does it?
           \_ Obama == Socialist ~ National Socialist == Nazi == Hitler
              \_ Socialist >>> Bush Reagan Capitalist > McCain
                 Therefore, Obama >>> McCain
              \_ This is too long for a soundbite, you need a way to say
                 this in a snappier fashion.
        \_ I orignially posted about Obama's choice to speak in front of the
           victory column.  My intention wasn't to imply the Obama was Hitler,
           just that he was incredibly arrogant and aften tone deaf.  I expect
           this sort nonsense from Bush, but you'd think the more 'humble' Obama
           would, I don't know, ask a German where he should have a speech in
           just that he was incredibly arrogant and often tone deaf.  I expect
           this sort nonsense from Bush, but you'd think the more 'humble'
           Obama would, I don't know, ask a German where he should have a
           speech in Germany.
           \_ You know he was denied his original speaking location, right?
              Perhaps the Obama campaign should have you as a consultant,
              since you obviously have his best interest at heart. He should
              dress up in a fighter suit, pad his codpiece, land on a
              aircraft carrier, and give a speech to a cheering throng
              under a "Mission Accomplished" banner like a good Republican
              fake war hero instead? Where was your outrage at the fascist
              overtones then?
              \_ 1. Yes his original location was the Brandenburg Gate.  Which
                    was a jaw-droppingly arrogant, and insulting, first choice.
                    He can't ask a German?
                    \_ "Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!"
                       \_ Ummm... Yes?  Said a standing President? Your point?
                          \_ So it is okay when Reagan does it, but not when
                             Obama does? Got it. I see where you are coming
                             from, thanks.
                             \_ Was it a campaign stop for Reagan too?  Reagan
                                wasn't invited to speak there?  Oh. You have
                                no idea what you're talking about? Got it. I
                                see where you are coming from, thanks.
                                \_ "Milk Strike ends at Brandenberg Gate"
                                   "Fulan Gong Rally at Brandenberg Gate"
                                   It gets used for all kinds of things. Are
                                   you German or something? I don't think you
                                   know what you are talking about, you are
                                   just parrotting some right wing talking
                                   just parotting some right wing talking
                                   points you heard somewhere.
                                   \_ see below.
                          \_ Why can't the presumptive president use the same
                             \_ Hey Germans, I think this hugely important
                                landmark, usually reserved only for visiting
                                heads of state, would make a nice campaign
                                speech backdrop, how that sound to you?
                                speech backdrop, how's that sound to you?
                                \_ Sounds to me like exactly the kind of
                                   thing that a Harvard educated elitist
                                   would think was a good idea.
                                \_ It actually gets used almost daily by
                                   various sorts of protestors and the like.
                                   Who told you otherwise?
                                   \_ Sorry, I wasn't clear and overstepped
                                      there.  Obviously context is important.
                                      The Gate is a public area, I didn't mean
                                      to imply it was sealed up or something.
                                      But there's a huge difference between
                                      a bunch of German protestors and a
                                      foreign pol giving a speech there.  The
                                      latter comes with HUGE political
                                      \_ 2 weeks ago if someone had said
                                         Obama was having a speech at
                                         the Brandenberg Gate you would have
                                         not be blathering this bullshit.
                                         However, you read a bunch of blogs
                                         flinging shit at Obama desperatly
                                         trying to make "gaff prone elist"
                                         stick and suddenly it is OBVIOUS
                                         HOW ELITIST AND TONE DEAF Obama
                                         was.  Jesus H. Motherfucking Christ
                                         you are so damn perdictable. -!pp
                                         \_ Predictable?  I predicted your
                                            petty pointless frothing before
                                            I posted this.  You accusations
                                            are false, but I don't feel any
                                            need to discuss with a gibbering
                                            monkey.  Good day.
                                            \_ You are fooling noone.
                                      \_ So who exactly would have been
                                         offended by Obama's speach at
                                         the Brandenburg gate?
                                         \_ HITLER
                                         \_ Bush's attack poodle, Merkel.
                 2. "I expect this sort of nonsense from Bush..." Can you read?
                 \_ Anyone running for the office of President of the United
                    States is arrogant, almost by definition. The closest thing
                    we ever say to humility in that office was Carter, and you
                    can see where that got us.
                    \_ Ok, true.  But I don't think a little bit of sensitivity
                       to our allies is wildly unrealistic.
                       \_ he's so fucking insensitive that every German TV
                          network covered his speech and 200,000 people came
                          network covered his speech and 20,000 people came
                          out to see him speak.  What an asshole.  -tom
                          \_ HILTER drew large german crowds
                             OBAMA draws large german crowds
                             HITLER == OBAMA qed
        \_ Who the hell is Melissa Clouthier, and why would I want to read her
2008/7/23-28 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China, Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:50660 Activity:nil
7/23    "Are You Satisfied? The World's Most Optimistic Countries"
        The US is on par with France -- in a bad way.
        \_ We used to rank higher, before Bush got hold of the economy.
2008/7/23-28 [Reference/Tax, Finance/Shopping] UID:50661 Activity:high
7/23    So tom, how does it feel to be rich?  You're in the top 10% you know.
        \_ Where are the numbers for all the other taxes we pay, like
           payroll, sales, etc? Oh yeah, just ignore all the facts that
           don't advance your pro-inherited wealth ideology.
        \_ So, how does it feel to be an anonymous coward?  -tom
        \_ I'm not pro-tax by any means, but isn't it pathetic that the
           top 1% of the country earns double what the bottom 50% does? It
           would not necessarily be positive even if the chart showed the top
           1% paying 99% of the taxes if they also earn 99% of the income
           leaving the other 99% to fight over crumbs. Also, I'd like to see a
           similar chart which shows after-tax income.
           \_ Why is it pathetic?
           \_ No! The standard of living has improved for every segment
              \_ You think this is a Good Thing?
                 \_ No. I just don't find it very surprising. The bottom 50%
                    are economically rather useless. Supply and demand...
                    why would a single diamond be worth more than a ton of
                    normal rocks?
                    \_ I have more respect more American workers than that.
                       I could see if you said bottom 10%, but bottom HALF?
                       \_ Everyone in the bottom half is "below average".
                          And "average" isn't very good in this country
                          (or any other country, really). I'm not saying
                          they're worthless. But they aren't rare snowflakes
                          and they're probably not even trying that hard to
                          improve themselves, as long as they have their
                          food + home + sex.
                          \_ I actually think American workers have a
                             strong work ethic and are among the best in
                             the world. It's interesting that when foreign
                             management employs US workers they can
                             achieve amazing results that US management cannot.
                             I am not prepared to write-off millions of US
                             workers. Those workers made us the economic
                             engine we are today and by continually
                             outsourcing, placing low expectations on them, and
                             taking advantage of them, we are getting what we
                             deserve. I'd rather have 10 poorly educated
                             American workers with a work ethic over 10
                             over-educated Europeans workers who whine all
                             the time and expect lots of time off. BTW,
                             average and median are two different things.
                             I am not sure that 50% of US workers are
                             actually "below average".
                             \_ Spoken like a dumb patriot.
                                \_ Spoken like someone who knows how hard
                                   Americans work. Check out average
                             \_ They are the bottom 50% lowest paid people.
                                Why do you think they have a strong work
                                ethic? Who knows what they do?  Anyway,
                                there may be a lot of part time workers in
                                those statistics -- part time working parents,
                                or school kids with jobs. The top 50%
                                makes 88% and 12% for the bottom.
                                Without more data to go on, I don't see a
                                reason to get too excited. And I'm not
                                going to do a bunch of research right now.
                                \_ 1. I've actually been in the workplace
                                      and seen that salary does not
                                      correlate to work ethic
                                   2. Just look at the statistics for
                                      number of hours worked per week
                                   3. If you don't see a problem with half
                                      the country making 12% of the income
                                      then there's no hope for you anyway.
                                      You got yours, right?
                                   \_ 1. Work ethic isn't good enough. You
                                         can work hard but if you're stupid
                                         or otherwise not valuable it does
                                         not mean jack. There are billions
                                         of people on Earth and merely
                                         working N hours isn't very valuable.
                                         \_ I beg to differ. If you're willing
                                            to work hard there's a lot of
                                            inherent value in that even if
                                            you're stupid. Someone has to
                                            build roads, harvest crops, work
                                            the cash register, and so on.
                                            \_ But anybody can work that cash
                                               register. That's the point.
                                               There is no scarcity of bodies
                                               willing to do unskilled work
                                               for a few bucks. Therefore
                                               the value is low. Supply and
                                               \_ Anybody can work it. Not
                                                  everyone has the work
                                                  ethic to show up on time
                                                  and do it for 8 hours
                                                  per day 250 days per year.
                                                  You can't say "well that's
                                                  without value". It is wasting
                                                  \_ If it had real value it
                                                     wouldn't be underpaid. duh
                                                     \_ You don't really
                                                        believe this do you?
                                                        The price pressures are
                                                        external to the US
                                                        markets. Think of
                                                        how much $$$ we could
                                                        save by outsourcing our
                                                        management for
                                                        lower-paid foreign
                                                        management instead
                                                        of saying that a
                                                        person making $9/hour
                                                        is overpaid because
                                                        someone in India can do
                                                        the job for $1/hour.
                                                        We could save more
                                                        by cutting that 88%
                                                        of earners versus
                                                        putting more pressure
                                                        on the 12% half.
                                                        \_ The companies are
                                                           run/owned by these
                                                           88%. You can't cut
                                                           them. The entire
                                                           point is they are
                                                           not drones being
                                                           told what to do by
                                                           somebody higher up.
                                                           They are the top.
                                                     What world do you live in
                                                     which is full of fuckups
                                                     who can't even show up
                                                     to an easy job? Working
                                                     \_ The real world. I
                                                        can tell you never
                                                        managed low-level
                                                        employees before.
                                                     the Safeway cash register
                                                     is air conditioned and
                                                     they can take breaks.
                                                     You don't need one person
                                                     to do it 250 days a year
                                                     either, there are shifts.
                                                     \_ You need *someone*
                                                        there 250 days per year
                                                        when they say they
                                                        are going to be there.
                                                        Compare to Europe where
                                                        such employees make
                                                        more to do less.
                                                        \_ Why Europe? Try
                                                           a country without
                                                           a generous benefits
                                                           which make work
                                                  a valuable resource in a
                                                  menial task that could be
                                                  doing something less menial
                                                  if big business realized it
                                                  and took advantage of
                                                  it. This is what US
                                                  management overlooks and
                                                  foreign management does not.
                                                  They know how valuable it is,
                                                  because they don't have that.
                                                  Addendum: Have you noticed
                                                  that as salaries have fallen
                                                  (due to global competition
                                                  and outsourcing) that jobs
                                                  that "anyone can do" are
                                                  being done poorly? I had to
                                                  call AT&T and I was ready to
                                                  praise God when I finally was
                                                  transferred to a CSR in
                                                  Atlanta versus an "anyone" in
                                                  India and the Philippines.
                                                  But supposedly this American
                                                  is overpaid and needs to
                                                  be outsourced when earning
                                                  her share of 12% of the
                                                  income in the country.  BS.
                                                  \_ No I haven't noticed
                                                     that. AT&T does not give
                                                     a shit about CSRs because
                                                     you're still their
                                                     customer and their
                                                     competition also has crap
                                                     CSRs. I pick low price vs
                                                     good CSRs every time. You
                                                     should pay extra for your
                                                     precious CSRs. Also: you
                                                     are assuming that CSR is
                                                     bottom 50% -- unfounded.
                                                     But hey, they need no
                                                     education and only need
                                                     to be able to communicate.
                                                     You have a weird worldview
                                                     if you think that alone
                                                     deserves top-50% income.
                                                     \_ It doesn't deserve
                                                        top-50% income.
                                                        What it deserves
                                                        is more than 12%
                                                        of the pie.
                                                        \_ Why? They mostly
                                                           are living just
                                                           fine, and better
                                                           than billions.
                                      2. see above
                                      3. It's not half the country, it's half
                                         the income tax filers.  Did you go
                                         to school?  I don't remember everyone
                                         having a strong work ethic. We're in
                                         a globalized economy where people's
                                         simple jobs of the past are more
                                         cheaply done by foreigners who are
                                         cheaper and more motivated. That said
                                         most people in this country still live
                                         very well even with low wages.
                                         \_ So your argument is that there
                                            are a lot of retirees and students
                                            skewing the statistics? I find that
                                            hard to believe. Regardless, those
                                            people need to survive, too.
                                            Just because someone is retired
                                            doesn't mean their income can go to
                                            \_ We haven't talked about their
                                               income going to 0. We've talked
                                               about their share of the income
                                               pie. The pie is pretty huge.
                                               \_ All the more disgusting that
                                                  the top 5% get most of it.
                                                  \_ They create most of it.
                                                     \_ You don't really
                                                        believe that do you?
                                                        Are they valuable?
                                                        Yes. Are they
                                                        generating value-added
                                                        commensurate with
                                                        income? No. How many
                                                        CEOs rake in millions
                                                        while their companies
                                                        (and share price) go
                                                        into the toilet?
                                                        I would argue McNealy
                                                        gets a pass for what
                                                        he's done for the
                                                        company, but maybe
                                                        not. Do companies pay
                                                        for past success or
                                                        present results?
                                                        \_ But look at the
                                                           long term growth.
                                                           Long term economic
                                                           growth is phenomenal
                                                           and all the drones
                                                           benefit from this.
                        The drones do not benefit from  _/
                        this. The average wage for American
                        workers has not gone up since
                        the 70s. For workers with no
                        college degree, it has actually
                        gone down.
                        \_ I don't think wages tell the whole story. Would you
                           rather live with an average wage in an average town
                           in 1975 or now?
                           Does that wage figure include "supplemental
                           compensation" like health insurance, retirement
                           plans, and social security payments made by
                           employers?  Or the quality of health care? Or
                           technological advancements such as cell phones
                           and PCs?
                           This report is interesting:
                           Check out "Supplements to wages and salaries" as a
                           percentage of national income.
                           And consider:
                           Population went from 200M to 300M since 1970,
                           and the global economy is much more competitive.
                           \_ The gains have almost entirely gone to the top:
                              Look at the chart labled "Real Annual Income
                              Growth by Groups" I don't think that increases
                              in the cost of health insurance really should be
                              considered as increases in the standard of
                              living, though perhaps I would feel differently
                              if I was in bad health.
                              \_ Well, ok. But the population size has grown
                                 tremendously and a huge number are foreign
                                 born.  The economy has accommodated them
                                 and still grown.  By 2050, 1 in 5 of the US
                                 population is projected to be hispanic.
                                 This part is interesting:
                                 "The evidence suggests that top incomes
                                 earners today are not "rentiers" deriving
                                 their incomes from past wealth but rather are
                                 "working rich," highly paid employees or new
                                 Massive immigration and global competition
                                 depressed wage growth for the lower groups.
                                 Jobs that are more independent of this type
                                 of competition see big gains, like doctors.
                                 The best thing for the lower classes here
                                 would be to improve conditions in Mexico
                                 and have a lower population growth there.
                                 I guess this brings us back to the
                                 global inequality/barbarians in Rome theory.
                                 \_ I am in agreement with you.
           \_ No! The standard of living has improved in every segment
              of wealth and it's none of your business to implement
              progressive tax, that's COMMUNISM!!!      -libertarian
              \_ I said I'm not pro-tax. I don't necessarily think raising
                 taxes solves any problems. It just seems to make
                 government larger. It doesn't really help anyone.
                 However, what other ways can we address this inequality?
                 \_ Inequality has never been a problem throughout the
                    history of empires. The Roman emperors knew that long
                    time ago. As long as the populace has bread (beer+pizza)
                    and circus (football, plasma), there will never be
                    issues for the governing party.
                    \_ So how did that whole Rome thing work out for them?
                       \_ It worked quite well for a very, very long time.
                          The US is a young nation in comparison.
                          \_ How can you say inequality was not a problem with
                             a straight face when it caused the entire
                             Western civilization to collapse into
                             centuries of Dark Ages?
                             \_ My point is as long as people have bread
                                and circuses there will not be a problem.
                                panem et circenses.
                                \_ My point is that your point is wrong,
                                   because Rome fell and set the world
                                   back at least 500 years, if not more,
                                   as a result. So clearly there were some
                                   \_ Your notion that Rome's fall was the
                                      fault just of "inequality" is silly.
                                      There was no one single thing. There
                                      were huge tribal migrations, plagues,
                                      climate changes (hey hey), cultural
                                      turbulence with Christianity and then
                                      Islam etc. Rome kept going in the east
                                      anyway... if the world was set back
                                      then that probably goes back to the
                                      fall of the Republic and onset of
                                      \_ Especially since early Rome was not
                                         especially egalitarian, with slaves,
                                         very restricted citizenship rights,
                                         etc., but it flourished just fine.
                                         \_ Actually, inequality was probably
                                            the greatest contributor. Why?
                                            Because the barbarians wanted
                                            what Rome had and because Rome
                                            consumed more resources than it
                                            could honestly produce sustainably
                                            except through conquest (sound
                                            familiar?). It was only late
                                            in the game that the Romans
                                            started to grant citizenship
                                            to foreigners in an effort to
                                            prevent a total collapse as it
                                            became more and more difficult
                                            to defend the far-flung Empire
                                            from people ticked off at their
                                            inequitable treatment so that
                                            wealthy Romans could have
                                            gold-plated toilets. Inequality
                                            here doesn't refer to classes
                                            within Roman citizenry as much as
                                            it does inequality between Romans
                                            and the rest of the world,
                                            including occupied territories and
                                            Roman residents never granted
                             \_ And here I thought it was the Barbarians
                                that sacked Rome.
                                \_ I can only shake my head in disbelief at
                                   this statement.
                                   \_ What, you think the Romans sacked
                                      themselves? It was the Visigoths, in
                                      \_ Forest for the trees, dude.
2008/7/23-28 [Politics/Domestic/California, Reference/Tax] UID:50662 Activity:nil
7/23    DNC:  gas tax dodgers
2008/7/23-28 [Finance/Shopping] UID:50663 Activity:nil
7/23    Sometimes Fedex is actually cheaper (huge boxes) and sometimes
        USPS is cheaper. Media (book/CD) in particular is the cheapest
        with USPS but many items I sell on eBay are not CDs/books. UPS
        has rarely been cheap for me. This is all very confusing and
        eating up my profit margins. Is there a site that'll help me
        find out which service would be cheaper for the different types
        of packages I send out?
        \_ I'm curious about this as well.  I was just checking all 3 sites
           for every package.
        \_ Just add shipping as a cost borne by the purchaser on EBay.
2008/7/23-28 [Reference/Tax] UID:50664 Activity:nil
7/23    Your taxes will be going up significantly next year.
        \_ Does this mean Roth 401K (taxed now, no tax when withdraw) is
           a better deal than traditional IRA and traditional 401K where
           you're not taxed now but taxed later?
        \_ It is pretty funny that all the talking heads applauding
           deregulation over the last 5 years are now all complaining
           that the government didn't act soon enough.
           \_ Didn't act soon enough in what way?
2008/7/23-28 [Science/Biology] UID:50665 Activity:nil
7/23    Dinosaur evolutionary tree: [new scientist]
        \_ You mean intelligently designed tree.
2008/7/23-28 [Reference/RealEstate] UID:50666 Activity:low
7/23    San Diego wants to be a sanctuary city, a foreclosure sanctuary,
        that is:
        \_ Wow, that's an interesting idea.  I think I'll go buy 10 houses
           in San Diego!
           \- "Bang Fax", one step beyind JingleMail
           \_ Does life insurance cover suicide?  Doh!?
              And will the house be haunted now?
           \_ I just don't get this, why shoot yourself? Why not go down,
              guns blazing, defending your property?
              \_ Because not everyone is a violent psychopath?
                 \_ Better to shoot yourself?
2008/7/23-28 [Computer/HW] UID:50667 Activity:nil
7/23    Translate server error:
2008/7/23-28 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:50668 Activity:nil
7/23    McCain, always has been a critic of the Iraq War, always has been
        a critic of Bush's failures in the war.
2008/7/23-28 [Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:50669 Activity:nil
7/23    Obama claims that the Banking Committee is "his" committee?
        \_ Well, he is the president!
        \_ Weak sauce. He was referring to provisions he offered last year
           to the Iran Sanctions Bill:
           \_ Okay, so when he said "we just passed" he meant the Senate (fair
              enough), what did he mean when he emphasized "my committee"?
              \_ He misspoke: he meant that "his" provisions had been passed
                 by the Banking Committee.
        \_ I'll take a few minor flubs by Obama over Angry McCain's current
           bout of doozies.
           \_ Articulate Harvard educated elitists aren't allowed to flub.
              Cranky ex-POWs, however, can say whatever they want.
              \_ Quick, to the Iraq/Pakistan boarder!
                 \_ Yeah!  That plays loud music and is like, 2 months behind
                    on his rent!
              \_ Quick, to the Iraq/Pakistan border!
2008/7/23-28 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:50670 Activity:nil
7/23    Bob Novak: [bodily orifice]: (CBS News)
        \_ Another Compassionate Conservative. Bush will probably pardon
           him, too.
           \_ This really is the model, isn't it? "I didn't see him!
              I wasn't running away, really! And why are you blocking
              my car with your bike? I haven't done anything wrong!"
2008/7/23-28 [Transportation/Car] UID:50671 Activity:nil
7/23    Are all traffic engineers imbeciles or is it just the Silicon
        Valley? I was at an intersection where the green light was
        letting cars through 2 seconds at a time on an 8-lane street
        but letting cars through a minute at a time for a 4-lane street.
        \_ Pretty much all imbeciles. In my city there's a road that has
           two lights in close succession - maybe 20 feet from each other.
           For years they were set so that they turned red and green
           together and you could go on your way. Someone had the bright idea
           to set them so that when the first one turns green the other one
           stays red for a couple of minutes longer which makes traffic
           pile up into the intersection. Brilliant!
           \- non-idiot:
        \_ Yes. Just look at 110 freeway in Southern Cal. The 10/110
           junction is idiotically designed. Also look at the 405 and
           101 junction. Why the hell they placed exits and entrances
           the way they are now, and why they can't do anything about
           it to fix the problem, is just idiotic. A friend of mine
           had a dad who worked at Rockwell and was laid off in the 80s
           and hired as a CalTrans engineer in the 90s said CalTrans was
           very laid back and they don't really care about anything except
           to follow legal and civil engineering rules. They know absolutely
           nothing about operations research or flow optimizations.
           \- i thought LA was supposed to be the well-run traffic system ...
              although i guess operations is different from design.
              when i have spoken to "transit people" [not engineers], i dont
              seem to get very good answers to "why do the carpool hours
              not make sense" "why is the echchange from MajorFwyA to MajorFwyB
              which is not in an especually crowded area one lane" "why was
              the cost estimate for the new bay bridge that far off" "why have
              they been closing a lane of the lower bay bridge for part of the
              day for say 5years now?" etc. i do understand that the avg
              traffic engineer may have very few degrees of freedom to
              fix stuff liek this. maybe their lives are something out of
              The Wire|The Sopranos.
           \_ Wait, I thought commuting by auto was far superior than by
              public transit. How can this be, if everyone designing the
              freeways is so incompetent? Perhaps they should hire DBAs
              from the private sector to do all their engineering for them.
              \_ The same morons are the ones designing public transit.
        \_ The only decent traffic engineers I know of are the ones working for
           NJDOT. The NJ turnpike is amazing.
2022/05/27 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2008:July:23 Wednesday <Tuesday, Thursday>