Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2008:July:11 Friday <Thursday, Saturday>
Berkeley CSUA MOTD
2008/7/11-13 [Reference/RealEstate] UID:50533 Activity:nil
7/11    The Failure Of Neoliberalism
        Charlie Rangel and his 4 rent-controlled apartments in NY, including
        one he uses as an office.
        \_ Is this a sarcastic joke about the previous post on neoliberalism,
           or am I missing something?
           \_ I didn't post the 'neolib' comment.  Some dumbass keeps adding
              it. -op
2008/7/11-13 [Uncategorized] UID:50534 Activity:nil
7/11    Oops, Obama's 16-month withdrawal strategy isn't even possible.    [GMA]
        \_ yeah, we're screwed.  i really hope Bush crawls into a hole
           somewhere and starves himself in shame when he leaves office.
        \_ Yeah, because I'm 100% sure that what they are saying is the
           gospel truth.  Really I am.
2008/7/11-13 [Transportation/Airplane] UID:50535 Activity:nil
7/11    More TSA Craziness:
2008/7/11-13 [Uncategorized] UID:50536 Activity:nil
7/11    Significant Israeli Air Force presence in Iraq on training exercises.
        Real, fake, or psy-ops fake?
2008/7/11-13 [Politics/Domestic/California, Industry/Jobs] UID:50537 Activity:high
7/11    Regarding the below discussion about "overpaid" government
        employees, here is a result of a search on all programmers
        who work for the State Board of Equalization:
        As you can see, the pay is below industry standard.
        \_ You know who makes way too much in California?  Firefighters.
           Screw those guys.  Just as soon as they're done fighting the 3000
           simultaneous fires going on now all over the state and turning
           my sunset a pleasant red, I expect a full auditing of their
           overtime and massive firings.
           \_ If they have to work that much overtime then maybe they need
              to hire more firefighters. However, I bet the unions won't
              allow that. There are lots of people lining up to be
              firefighters and there are no positions to be had, yet these
              guys work crazy overtime (which has to be unsafe). They
              won't accept making their base salary amount, though, which
              is what they'd have to take if enough were hired.
        \_ My take all along has been that IT is one of the *few* areas that
           the government underpays, which is probably why so many of you
           think that government pay is low.
           \_ Never worked for the government I see.
              \_ Never lived in DC I see.
           \_ Show me a job title and employer where the pay is high then:
              All I see is mediocre (at best) pay levels.
              \_ How about an OC detective making $221K?
                 \_ Unsourced anecdotal evidence is pretty weak. I presented
                    you with a database with tens of thousands of salaries,
                    now go make your case.
                    \_ Happy?
                       "The average salary for federal employees is
                       $60,517... the Washington, DC area has an average
                       salary of $78,593."
                       "The top overtime recipient was sheriff's
                       investigator Theodore R. Harris, who made $120,000
                       in overtime, bringing his total pay to $221,000"
                       (Source: [la times])
                       "City workers' average salaries will reach about
                       $68,850 for civilians and $93,800 for sworn police
                       and fire by July - placing them in the upper ranks
                       of comparable cities and far higher than
                       private-sector workers."
                       (Source: [daily news])
                       "What was not reported was her annual salary,
                       which, according to a database published by the
                       Daily News, is $104,000.  Another DWP mother in
                       attendance was Wendy Ramallo, the wife of Joe
                       Ramallo, who, according to the database, makes
                       $167,478 per year.

                       By the way, if those two drove to the meeting, they
                       probably drove a car you own.  You see, all DWP
                       employees with six-figure incomes get, in addition
                       to their salary, a free car, paid for by you, the
                       taxpayer/ ratepayer.

                       Sara Perez and Jo-Del Navarro also spoke out, but
                       they "only" make $86,025.60 and $72,620 per year."
                       "As the Los Angeles Department of Water and Power
                       seeks a hefty taxpayer rate hike, a Daily News
                       review of salary data shows the average utility
                       worker makes $76,949 a year - or nearly 20 percent
                       more than the average civilian city worker.

                       More than 1,140 of the utility's employees - or
                       about 13 percent - take home more than $100,000 a
                       year. And General Manager Ron Deaton, who is on
                       medical leave, rakes in $344,624 a year making him
                       the city's highest-paid worker.

                       DWP salaries are on average higher than city and
                       far higher than private-sector workers'"
                       (Source: [laist])
                       LWDP database showing painters making $79K:
                       Feel free to search for your own job titles at:
                       Even "CUSTODIAL SERVICES ATTENDANTS" make $46K.
                       "Have you heard about the fire captain in the city
                       of San Diego who made $242,138 in one year? How
                       about the city lifeguard who made $138,787? It's
                       all true - and if you thought the city of San Diego's
                       pensions were generous, wait until
                       you see how much some city workers are being paid."
                       "For years, the city's powerful unions and many
                       city officials have claimed city workers are
                       underpaid - using the official salary
                       schedules published in the budget as their
                       evidence. It is time that the public be told
                       exactly what city workers are paid. Taxpayers
                       should not have to rely on an institute to dig up
                       the information using W-2 data. City departments
                       (such as the Fire Department) also put "phantom
                       positions" in their budget to hide off-budget
                       expenses such as excessive overtime. Mayor Jerry Sanders
                       recently discovered that 400 or more salaried positions
                       are not even included in the budget each year."
                       (Source: [sd union tribune])
                       \_ "The average salary for federal employees is
                          $60,517... City workers' average salaries will reach
                          about $68,850 for civilian workers..." Sorry, those
                          numbers just don't seem that exorbitant to me, do
                          they to you? Perhaps there are a few departments where
                          employees are overpaid (and it sounds like DWP is
                          one of them) but to extrapolate from that to all
                          they to you? Perhaps there are a few departments
                          where employees are overpaid (and it sounds like DWP
                          is one of them) but to extrapolate from that to all
                          government employees is bad logic. I do not
                          begrudge someone getting paid 2X a normal salary
                          if they do 80 hrs/week of work and I don't
                          understand why you would either. It does sound like
                          their boss needs to hire someone new, but this is
                          their boss needs to hire an extra person, but this is
                          not always possible, as should be obvious if you
                          stop to think about for even a second.
                          \_ 1. It depends on the job being done. For an
                                accountant maybe not. For a simple clerk,
                                painter, or custodian then yes. The
                                argument was that gov't employees are
                                underpaid and that is clearly untrue. They
                                don't have to have 'exorbitant' salaries
                                for that to be untrue. I make $100K and I
                                don't have a free car, for instance.
                             2. I gave data for all federal employees, so
                                we don't have to extrapolate.
                             3. Do you really think these people are doing
                                80 hours/week of work based on the hours
                                gov't offices keep and your experiences in
                                working with the city/county? For
                                instance, in San Diego they get every
                                other Friday off. And they are still
                                working crazy OT? No way. It's a farce
                                caused by lax auditing. Why are people who
                                make $100K per year getting any overtime
                                at all? At my company (and most companies)
                                people at that level are exempt and we just
                                suck it up or quit. The article is making
                                a point that "phantom positions" are
                                created to perpetuate this overtime fraud.
                                The gov't will never hire appropriately
                                because it would be akin to a pay cut for
                                the workers. It's easier to continue with
                                the status quo because you have an excuse
                                why you are behind on work (short-staffed)
                                and make the paper salaries seem small.
                             4. Like I said, I have two sisters working
                                for the gov't and it's easy money. My one
                                sister is very honest and she always says
                                she doesn't have enough work to do and
                                asks for more and they tell her she needs
                                to stop working so hard and just enjoy it,
                                except she gets bored. She's an executive
                                secretary (which means she is the personal
                                secretary for a high-level engineer) and
                                she makes $70K. In another 4 years (will
                                have been 20 years) she can retire with
                                50% of her salary and free medical for
                                life. I don't begrudge her that, but let's
                                be honest about how that compares to being
                                a secretary at, say, Wells Fargo (where my
                                mom worked for many years) where those
                                benefits are non-existent and you would be
                                lucky to make $40K in that position. Put
                                the 'government employees are underpaid'
                                thing to rest. At worst, they are
                                compensated as well as anyone else and
                                usually better.
                                \_ You're talking a lot, but you're not
                                   saying anything.
                                   \_ You're a moron who can't read.
                                \_ Since you are the king of making up things
                                   to support your position, I need a lot more
                                   than "the friend of my sister-in-law over
                                   heard at a party" kind of data. Give me a
                                   job description and a state department and
                                   show me a sector of employees in the
                                   in the State of CA database. All of the data
                                   is there for the world to see, surely if
                                   public sector workers are so overpaid, you
                                   can find at least one of them. $60k/yr for
                                   a mid-career teacher, police officer or
                                   skilled craftsman seems very reasonable,
                                   even underpaid, to me. The majority of
                                   local spending is on education, public
                                   safety and public works, so that is where
                                   the majority of employees are going to come
                                   from. The rest of your comments are mostly
                                   not worth replying to, but I will note that
                                   if these jobs are so great, why aren't people
                                   lining up to fill them? There is a chronic
                                   shortage of police officers and teachers in
                                   CA, hardly indication that they are overpaid.
                                   Note that total overtime pay is .4% of
                                   overall salary, so your opinion that
                                   overtime pay in the public sector is
                                   ubiquitous is clearly wrong headed.
                                \_ Plug in "exective assistant" for the
                                   Dept of Water Resources and you will see
                                   pay varies from $39k to $48k.
2008/7/11-13 [Finance/Investment] UID:50538 Activity:nil
7/11    Private the gains, socialize the losses. Thanks for the billions,
        now I am going to retire suckahs, says the financial sector!
        \_ You missed the "force the losses"
2008/7/11-13 [Finance/Banking] UID:50539 Activity:high
7/11    IMB taken over by FDIC.  Largest single S&L failure.
        \_ Thanks Chuck Schumer for causing a run on the bank!
           "The banking regulator said it closed IndyMac after customers began
           a run on the lender following the June 26 release of a letter by
           Sen. Charles Schumer, D-N.Y., urging several bank regulatory
           agencies that they take steps to prevent IndyMac's collapse.
           "In the 11 days that followed the letter's release, depositors took
           out more than $1.3 billion, regulators said."
           \_ You have a strange way of placing blame.
              \_ Schumer tipped it over the brink. You dispute this?
                 \_ IndyMac was going to die no matter what. You dispute this?
        \_ American Savings and Loan in Stockton was bigger, according to the
        \- i'd be very surprised if indymac was bigger than continental
           illinois ... factoring in inflation and all that. continental
           illinois was a money center bank in the top 10 by assets. --psb
           \_ Indymac is the #2 largest behind Continental Illinois.
           \_ Not to be pedantic, but wasn't Cont. Ill. a bank, not an S&L?
              \- not to be pendatic in return :-) ...
                 that is a fair point, but since ~1980, the S&L vs (commercial)
                 bank distinctinction is basically trivial, i.e. S&Ls may
                 offer the same range of services and have comparable
                 regulations on investments (and have moved more and more
                 in the covergent direction since like getting rid of the
                 separate FSLIC). YMERA(barfin jake garn-st. germain,
                 DIDMCA, Regulation Q). See e.g. FMISHKIN book on post-New
                 Deal regulation of depository institutions. --psb
                 that is a fair point, but since ~1980, the S&L vs bank
                 distinct is basically trivial.
                 YMERA(garn-st. germain, monetary control act 1980)
                 i.e. S&L may offer the same range of services and have
                 comparable requirements investments. See e.g. MISHKIN book.
                 bank  distinct is basically trivial. YMERA(garn-st. germain,
                 DIDMCA, Regulation Q). i.e. S&L may offer the same range of
                 services and have comparable regulations on investment.
                 See e.g. FMISHKIN book.
                 regulations on investments.
                 YMERA(barfin jake garn-st. germain, DIDMCA, Regulation Q).
                 See e.g. FMISHKIN book on post- New Deal regulation of
                 depository institutions. --psb
        \_ Thanks Bush! Ownership society, indeed!
2008/7/11-13 [Health] UID:50540 Activity:nil
7/11    I heard an interview with the victim in this:
        I'd like to see this doctor rot in jail.
2008/7/11-13 [Computer/SW/OS/Misc] UID:50541 Activity:kinda low
7/11    Does anyone know a way to find out all the environment variables for
        a running process aside from ps?  I'm doing this on AIX, and while
        ps eww <pid> gives some of the environment vars, it seems to stop at
        2000 characters or so.
        \_ have you tried ps ewww? That works in some flavors of Unix.
        \- agree with ps -e. otherwise, on AssOS, /proc/<pid>/environ ...
           which I believe is a NULL delimited list (so some unix tools/
           functions may have issue operating on it, unless you map the NULs
           to something else). Not portable. i dont know anything about AIX
           any more. --psb
           \_ Lucky. AIX is crap. -op.
                     \- that, i knew :-) [although GPFS is really neat].
2008/7/11-13 [Recreation/Media] UID:50542 Activity:nil
7/11    Commentary on Wall-E's anti-fatty subtext.  I think it's kinda funny.
        Actually, one of the parts I liked about Wall-E was where they blame
        weight gain on microgravity.  I thought that was a good idea, but they
        kinda screw it up since everything in the movie seems to fall at
        \_ The movie blamed bone-loss on microgravity.  The auto-couches made
           them get fat, and the fact that the 5-year plan went a little long.
           \_ The little cartoon that accompanied the bone loss line showed
              both bone loss and increased blobishness.
2008/7/11 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:50543 Activity:nil
7/11    Grover Norquist blames Nancy Pelosi for high oil prices:
2019/05/19 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2008:July:11 Friday <Thursday, Saturday>