5/5 LA, #9 worst city for commuters.
http://www.forbes.com/2008/04/24/cities-commute-fuel-forbeslife-cx_mw_0424realestate3_slide_3.html?thisSpeed=15000
http://promo.realestate.yahoo.com/best-and-worst-cities-for-commuters.html
\_ What you should have noted is that SF came in at #10 for all of
the talk about how SF does things right and LA doesn't.
\_ *LAUGH*. You can escape SF by going to San Mateo, Sunnyvale,
San Jose. But with LA, you never really arrive or leave
LA, it is just a big blob of land that never cease to
end. LA is everything and anything. Santa Monica, Culver City,
San Dimas, Pasadena, Walnut, Chino, etc. That's all LA.
You never get to LA, nor do you ever leave LA.
\_ WTF?
\_ No shit. If you want a real taste of LA, drive some street
like Foothill or Rosemead from end to end. It is amazing
how you can drive and see 20 miles of strip malls.
\_ And this is just so totally unlike the Bay Area. Not.
\_ I have never seen anything like it anywhere else.
What do we have like that? East 14th Street?
\_ Have you never driven south out of San Francisco
into Silicon Valley or east to Livermore?!
\_ Weak comparisons. Sorry.
\_ You know, I will accept Camino Real as a pretty
good comparison.
\_ That is not really SF, that is Bay Area they are talking about.
No one already in SF needs to cross a bridge to get to SF.
\_ The topic is "worst cities for __commuters__". No one in
downtown LA needs to commute to get to downtown LA either.
\_ You do if you live in The Valley and work downtown.
\_ Are you dense? Reread what I wrote.
\_ You're the dumb fuck. It's not clear what
LA means in the URL. !op !pp
\_ What does this mean:
"No one in downtown LA needs to commute to get to
downtown LA either." ?
Where does The Valley factor into that?
\_ not the op but The Valley is an unincorporated
city of LA, and therefore, it is LA.
\_ BUT IT'S NOT DOWNTOWN
\_ Not even unincorporated. Most of the Valley
is in LA proper. So plenty of people who
actually live in LA have hour long commutes
downtown. No one who actually lives in the
city of SF does.
\_ That's just because SF is tiny, not
because it's somehow better. Think
of SF as "downtown Bay Area" which
it is functionally. Besides, it
doesn't take an hour to get from
Studio City or Encino to downtown.
\_ Google maps says "up to 1 hour
and 20 minutes in traffic" from
Encino to Downtown. 1 hr and 30
minutes from Encino. The whole
minutes from Northridge. The whole
point is that SF is built to human
scale and LA is not.
\_ So "human scale" involves
commuting from Pleasanton to
your job in downtown SF? Please.
The Bay Area is just as sprawling.
Don't focus on political
boundaries to make a point
about how SF is so much
better. I mean, hey, we might
as well compare SF County to
LA County but that ignores
all of the people who work in
SF but don't live there which
people seem to want to count
to prove SF is a 'big city'
but exclude when it makes SF
the 10th worst city for commuters.
Still better than LA, but not
as much as SF residents make
it out to be. I think it's
interesting that:
1. 8 cities were worse than LA
2. SF was only one place below
BTW, LA is so sprawling
because of the street cars.
Without public transit it
would probably be much more
compact. Public transit
screwed up LA.
\_ don't let the facts get in
your way:
http://www.uncanny.net/~wetzel/lary.htm#map
-tom
\_ I knew you would come
running. However, you
don't know much about LA.
That's obvious from all
the discussions we've
had on MOTD. Look at
this map:
link:tinyurl.com/6dlgk4
According to Wikipedia
the Red Car system
extended all the way to
Riverside and San Bernardino.
LARy or the Yellow Cars
(your map) were just
the trolleys that made
up a small part of the
system (the most dense
part). Google "Red Car" or
"Pacific Electric Railway".
I know a lot about the
railway system and as
you would expect
development happened
along the PER routes,
which is exactly what
Mr. Huntington wanted
as he bought up the
land around the routes
in advance. People
would have never
developed so much so
far away from the city
center in those days
(~1925) without the
existence of the PER.
You are welcome.
\_ I bet LA wishes it had
that railway system now.
\_ Well, yeah, since
the city was built
around it and then it
was dismantled.
However, it would've
been better had it
never existed at all.
\_ yeah, like Phoenix!
\_ I don't want to
get into
defending
Phoenix, but I
will note it was
not on this list
and SF was.
\_ Pleasanton is the exception
in the Bay Area while The Valley
in the Bay Area while The
Valley
is the standard in the LA area.
It is quite hard to find decent
places to live near work in LA,
though they do exist (Silverlake
though they do exist
(Silverlake
Hancock Park, Santa Monica) but
it is easy in the Bay Area. They
it is easy in the Bay Area.
They
both have sucky sprawl, it is
just worse in LA.
\_ Actually, San Francisco
proper seems to be the
exception. Nowhere else
in the Bay Area is similar
and geography plays a big
part in why that is so.
\_ Oakland, Albany, Berkeley
are all very much like the
and Daly City are all
very much like the
residential parts of SF.
\_ Not really. They
are just from the
same era and so
the architecture
is similar. I
don't think anyone
would confuse Albany
with SF.
\_ Look, dimwit already told you that
\_ You haven't been to
the Westwood Park
neighborhood in SF.
The important thing
is the density and
land use patterns,
not the architecture
\_ I don't think I
have. So you're
telling me that
there's some
atypical
neighborhood in
SF which then
typifies what?
/
It is not that atypical. There are many more similar
It is not that atypical. There are dozens more simlar
to it. The truth is, you don't know much about SF, so
you say all kinds of silly things like "SF is similar
to downtown LA" Do 824k people live in Downtown LA?
\_ SF is similar to downtown LA. There are suburban areas close
to downtown also. Sure, downtown LA is only 40K people but
it is still apt to say:
SF:Bay Area::Downtown LA:Greater Los Angeles
There are a lot of reasons this doesn't hold (main one being
that downtown LA is not really the hub of jobs that SF is)
but you also have to realize that LA is bigger than SF, too.
I could say: "Do 3M people live in SF?" or "Is SF 470 square
miles?" It is reasonable to view SF at the center of the
larger Bay Area. The Bay Area is considered to be 7000 square
miles. LA is considered to be 5000 square miles (actually
34000, but lots of that is boonies). I think in terms of size
the regions are comparable and so it is not fair to single out
SF for better or worse when discussing the Bay Area. Direct SF
(city) versus Los Angeles (city) comparisons do not make sense,
which is why it makes more sense to compare the dense parts of
the Bay Area (SF) to the dense parts of LA (downtown to Santa
Monica) or to compare the sprawling parts of the Bay Area (East
and South Bay) to the Greater LA Area.
and South Bay) to the Greater LA Area. I know SF pretty well
given that I went to school at UCB and spent a lot of time
there. I won't claim to have been to every single area in SF,
but I went to enough to know that low density single story SFR
housing is not that common in SF and is very common in, say, Albany.
No. It is not just SF that has land use patterns that
enable a walkable neighborhood with good transit. I
agree that some, maybe even most of the Bay Area is
as spread out as LA, but not all of the Bay Area
outside The City is. I am kind of curious, are you
starting to come around to the idea that planning
is a good idea, or are you just arguing for the
sake of it?
\_ Where did I ever allude to planning being a bad idea other than
the ridiculousness of "master planned communities"? Without
zoning you get Texas.
\_ Look, dimwit already told you that
his work/living arrangement is unique
in LA and that he's better off than
90% of the Angelenos, hence LA is a
good place to live. Stop trolling ,
asshole. -dimwit #1 fan
\_ Actually, it does sound like dim has
a pretty good arrangement. If everyone
a pretty good arrangement.
If everyone
in LA lived like him, it wouldn't
have the problems that it has.
\_ I would live in LA in a second
over the crappy Silicon Valley
area, which is why I moved.
Silicon Valley is like SF's
Orange County except it doesn't
have any beaches. Yuck. Does
anyone really like San Jose?
I think people in the Bay
Area like to pretend San Jose
is not part of SF Bay Area because
they are so ashamed of it.
\_ San Jose isn't very different
from Irvine. One does have a much
higher HOA and restrictions though
from Irvine. One does have a
much higher HOA and
restrictions though.
\_ I wouldn't live in Irvine
either, but Irvine is
much nicer than San Jose.
\_ Commuting from the Richmond to downtown could easily take 1 hour
on the 38 Geary. Even from North Beach which is only 2.5 miles, I
on the 38 Geary. Even from North Beach which is only 2 miles, I
have waited 40 min for an F Castro trolley.
\_ Funny, I commute from Richmond (the city) to downtown SF, and it
typically takes an hour, most of that on BART. -ERic
\_ Hey, if you walked, it might take even longer. How long would
it take if you crawled on your hands and knees?
it take if you crawled on your hands and knees? From end to
end on the 38L takes 33 minutes. Only a tourist or a moron
would try to commute on the F.
\_ I lived a block from the F, dimwit. And 33 minutes to travel
4 miles. Yeah, that's really reasonable. How crowded do the
38L's get again?
\_ You cannot speak badly about glorious San Francisco,
comrade. The BART is always on time and never full
when it arrives and the citizenry smells like roses.
\_ Whether 33 minutes is reasonable or not is tangential
to the fact that it is considerably less than 1 hour.
I would rather stand for 1/2 hr on a crowded, swaying
bus, than sit for 1 1/2 hrs on a hellish freeway, but
each to their own, I guess. You should have walked to
the 10 and taken it instead of the F, by the way.
\_ I prefer 2 hours in my comfy Honda Accord Hybrid
to/from Pasadena than 1/2 hour smelling a bunch of
hippies and communists. Oak Grove Dr is a heaven
compared to say, BART.
\_ I prefer a half hour walk along tree lined
streets to riding in a vehicle at all. |