4/16 You thought gasoline was expensive now? You ain't seen nothing yet!
link:www.csua.org/u/las (Yahoo Finance, includes video)
\_ The free market will solve our energy crisis -dimwit #1 fan
\_ PEAK OIL alert. Also 'rationing by price' -- gotta love it.
\_ If the govt doesn't step in and do rationing, rationing by price
is how the market would do it.
\_ How many of you recall the gas lines of the 70s? Without
rationing by price we'll have lines *and* expensive gas, if
you can get it. Or oh hey we can do that whole even/odd
numbered plate thing again, yeah that was great. And don't
forget to ticket/fine/arrest any private citizen who dares
to give gas to anyone on the side of the road who runs out,
that was good for a laugh back then too.
\_ Dld that latter actually ever happen? I lived through
this, though I was quite young, but I don't remember
anything like that.
\_ Huh? What's wrong with 'rationing by price?' That's what the
market is FOR.
\_ Because when you ration nesseccities by price poor people
die. Old people die all the time in cold climates because
they can't afford heating oil.
\_ So how do you determine how much food/oil/whatever is
necessary and how much is beyond necessary? If you are
concerned about the poor then give them $$$ and let
them choose where to spend the $$$. That's still
rationing by price. I disagree with the idea that
every American should get a similar bundle of goods
that is "necessary".
\_ that's because you're an overprivileged twerp
\_ I forgot that you know what's best for people
more than they do. It's the leftist way to
boss people around.
\_ How do you "know" that freezing to death is
what is best for someone? Did they tell you
that?
\_ Can you read? "let them choose where to
spend the $$$" -!pp
\_ Nonono, the soviet style command economy
is clearly superior to western style
economics.
\_ We actually live in a mixed economy.
But you probably already know that.
\_ Sorry, missed that.
\_ Being able to survive a cold winter is pretty high
on the list.
\_ Some people have more tolerance for cold and
would prefer to spend the heating oil credit on
something more important to them like strippers
or booze or HDTV or whatever.
\_ Just wear a jacket at home. That's how I save on
gas bill.
\_ Cause where you live it regularly gets below 0F
\_ No, sorry. Government rationing will cause even worse
shortages and hurt even more people. Where do you
central control command economy guys get the idea the
government can actually make anything better? With gvt
imposed rationing you'll get a Soviet style system where
the rich and powerful get everything and the poor and
middle classes get nothing.
\_ And with no regulation, you get booms and panics
like in the 1880s. Why argue against the Straw Man
of a Soviet economy? Is your position so weak that
can't make your point any other way? Is there more
or less wealth inequality in Sweden or the US?
\_ A system in which everyone is equally poor is
a possible result and that wouldn't be a good
system. We can see examples of that in the China
of a couple decades ago, Soviet Russia, Cuba,
and so on. I don't think it matters how much of
the pie you get if it's a big enough pie. Everyone
sharing a small pie isn't a great alternative.
\_ That may be true, but it's a well known
psychological finding that people (a) care about
relative equality and (b) care specifically
about inequality of transferable assets, much
more so than other, much more 'unfair' and
blatant kinds of inequality. (There are some
interesting theories about how our attitudes about
fairness may have evolved which explain (a) and
(b)). -- ilyas
\_ I think most people in the USA don't care
or there would have been riots already. I
think people here assume (correctly) that
a rising tide lifts all boats. A wealthy,
powerful USA is something most Americans
desire and so far it has made us by far
the largest consumers in the world.
\_ Funny you should claim that right now.
Here is a front page article from the WSJ
that argues otherwise:
http://www.csua.org/u/lbj (WSJ)
(The rising boats opinion, not the
wealthy powerful America comment.)
\_ Do you think that people in Sweden, Denmark, The
Netherlands, etc are "poor"? Do you think that they
think of themselves as poor? The countries are
much more egalitarian than the US and people are
in general happier. And no one goes hungry or lacks
for housing or medical care.
Netherlands, etc are "poor"? Do you think that
they think of themselves as poor? The countries
are much more egalitarian than the US and people
are in general happier. And no one goes hungry or
lacks for housing or medical care.
\_ The Netherlands is a wealthy nation, but the
individuals are poor by American standards.
I say this as someone with a Dutch mother
and most of my family still living in Holland.
Sure, they aren't lacking in necessities.
On the other hand, they don't have any of the
luxuries people here have. I wouldn't eagerly
live their lifestyle nor that of my godfather's
Swedish ex-wife. Of course, someone who is
homeless would disagree. However, I think
overall the middle class in the USA is better
off than the middle class there. The rich are
rich both places. GDP per capita US is #2
in the world behind Luxembourg. Holland is
#16. Sweden is #25. I think our system,
while "unequal" benefits the citizenry more
than any other even though it's not "fair".
\_ But don't Dutch people consistently have
a higher "happiness" rating than Americans?
Food for thought. I believe Switzerland
comes out on top in that list, although
America is pretty high at number 20.
\_ Happiness can be acheieved with drugs.
It's not really something I aspire
to. YMMV.
\_ -1 to you, +1 to me.
\_ I am just saying that happiness is
a state of mind. I wouldn't
want to live in Third World
conditions just because the
people that do claim they are
happy about it.
\_ You were doing so good there for
a while too, after you dropped
the "a slightest bit of tax
increase is exactly equal to
Stalinism" line of argument, too.
Though you may in fact be
Stalinism" line of argument,
too. Though you may in fact be
another person, since your tone
is so different. But do you
really think that Swedes live
in "Third World" conditions? I
do not. The Dutch seem to have
quite pleasant lives and I have
been there many times. What you
say about the relative prosperity
of the middle class is no doubt
true, but all that junk that
Americans have doesn't seem to
improve their lives any.
say about the relative
prosperity of the middle class
is no doubt true, but all that
junk that Americans have
doesn't seem to improve their
lives any.
\_ That's pretty paternalistic.
-- ilyas
\_ I am one of those liberal
elitists you keep hearing
about.
\_ Good luck in the next
election! People LOVE
elitists!
\_ I am not running for
office.
\_ There may not be much of an oil trading system left by 2020 since
the "global economy" might be totally wrecked by nonstop warfare.
\_ Nonstop warfare? Caused by what? And fighting over what?
\_ Time to get a high gas mileage vehicle before manufacturers put an
SUV-like premium on them.
\_ Haven't they already?
\_ Yes on the hybrid ones, not yet on the regular engine ones.
\_ Get a bike as well! |