Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2008:April:12 Saturday <Friday, Sunday>
Berkeley CSUA MOTD
2008/4/12-16 [Recreation/Dating] UID:49736 Activity:nil
        "Attack of the preschool perverts"
2008/4/12-16 [Politics/Domestic/Gay, ERROR, uid:49737, category id '18005#10.07' has no name! , , Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:49737 Activity:nil
4/12    No wonder the Republicans on the motd are bitter: (NYT)
        "What is concerning is that we lost ground in every one of the
        highest-growth demographics," said Mehlman, the former  RNC
        chairman and Bush political adviser, who is now a lawyer at the
        lobbying firm Akin Gump.
        \_ Very weak troll.  Son, if you're going to troll someone, you can't
           spell out who your target is.  Your trolling skills are pathetic.
           \_ It is not really intended to be a troll. -op
              \_ It is a troll.  Move on.  Nothing to see here.
2008/4/12-16 [Politics/Domestic, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:49738 Activity:nil
4/12    Is it true that the American taxpayer is paying for universal health
        care for Iraqis?
        \_ This guy says so:
2008/4/12-19 [Science/Space] UID:49739 Activity:nil
4/12    End of 150-year-old West Coast Salmon fishery looms:
        \_ FUD. The fishery was doing fine just recently. Whatever has
           happened, this is nothing to indicate this is the start
           of a long-term trend. The sardines disappeared from Monterey
           also and overfishing was blamed - until they came back. It's
           good that a ban was enacted. It shows the fishery is well-managed.
           \- end of 240 yr nepalese monarchy looms
           \_ Overfishing has never been the problem with the salmon industry
              on the West Coast - it is one of the most heavily regulated in
              the world.  The reasons for the decline of the salmon are a lot
              more complicated than that - check out the book "Cadillac Desert"
              if you're really interested.  My dad worked in salmon restoration
              for 35 years, so this is a topic I'm wearily familiar with.
              \_ My point is that the fishery didn't suddenly collapse over the
                 last 6 years because of anything people did or did not do.
                 It has to be climate-related. The fish will bounce back
                 when conditions return to more normal as long as they
                 are not fished out during the recovery.
                   Many world fisheries are close to collapse, or have
                   already passed that point.
                 \_"The rivers that drain the Sierra used to flow through the
                   valleys and into the ocean; millions and millions of gallons
                   poured through the Golden Gate.  First Shasta Dam diverted
                   water from the Sacramento; then the Friant Dam was built to
                   take water from the San Joaquin River. All these rivers and
                   their tributaries were prime salmon runs."
                   --> FUCK LA.
                   \_ San Francisco and San Jose get their water from the Sierra
                      \_ How about the fustercluck that is Hetch Hetchy,
                         dammed for the benefit of San Francisco:
                         "Dam Hetch Hetchy! As well dam for water-tanks the
                         people's cathedrals and churches, for no holier
                         temple has ever been consecrated by the heart of
                         man." -- John Muir
                         It feels a lot better to blame it all on LA, though.
                         \_ Your lack of knowledge on the subject of water
                            diversion and the history of water projects in the
                            West is showing.   Please give "Cadillac Desert" a
                            \_ It is? Please enlighten me, because I know
                               a lot about the subject and Mr. Mulholland.
                            try.  You won't regret it, it's a great book.
                            Needless to say, Hetch hetchy doesn't have much to
                            do with the salmons decline, but it is part of the
                            \_ It doesn't and I never said it did. However,
                               let's be real about who is grabbing water
                               from where. Hetch Hetchy was completely
                               ruined for the benefit of SF, not LA. If SF
                               had remained the largest city in CA then
                               the water would be flowing there instead.
                               It wasn't going to remain in the rivers as
                               long as the population grew.
                            same mentality the led to the destruction of
                            California rivers.  The real water grab by
                            Los Angeles was in an entirely different place -
                            Owens Valley.  This was fictionalized in the movie
                            "Chinatown."  The municipalities aren't the real
                            villians, though - the real problem is the
                            subsidized federal and state projects which give
                            farmers massive incentives to waste enormous
                            amounts of water.
                               \_ Maybe when people stop growing rice in the
                                  desert for pennies per gallon I'll stop
                                  watering my lawn, but what does this
                                  have to do with salmon decline over the
                                  last 6 years? Nothing. If you feel
                                  something changed (e.g. water flows)
                                  then say so, but I have seen no one
                                  mention anything like that. What I see
                                  are comments about pumps, dams, and so
                                  on: none of which have changed recently
                                  AFAIK. What did change was the amount of
                                  food in the ocean. Occam's Razor is at
                                  work here. We can have a healthy salmon
                                  fishery even with things as messed up as
                                  they are, but sometimes things happen
                                  outside of our control. The ban will
                                  allow the salmon to recover as long as
                                  ocean conditions remain close to normal,
                                  as they are now.
                   \_ None of this has changed in the last 6 years.
                 \_ I really wish you were right, but it is sadly much more
                    stark than that.  The resource has been in serious decline
                    for many long decades, primarly due to habitat destruction
                    and water diversion.  You are correct that there is a
                    cyclic nature to the population, mosly due to the life
                    cycle of the fishes.  There will be something of an uptick
                    at some point - but it's just noise in a population graph
                    that essentially represents a remnant.
2008/4/12-16 [Uncategorized] UID:49740 Activity:nil 54%like:49723
4/11    Dear lord, I want to sodomize the motd
        \_ Don't we all?
2008/4/12-16 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:49741 Activity:nil
4/11    Hillary Clinton's shameless pandering in response to Obama 'bitter'
2008/4/12-17 [Uncategorized] UID:49742 Activity:nil
4/11    Dear lord, shut the fuck up already
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2008:April:12 Saturday <Friday, Sunday>