4/12 End of 150-year-old West Coast Salmon fishery looms:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/04/12/MNAB104836.DTL
\_ FUD. The fishery was doing fine just recently. Whatever has
happened, this is nothing to indicate this is the start
of a long-term trend. The sardines disappeared from Monterey
also and overfishing was blamed - until they came back. It's
good that a ban was enacted. It shows the fishery is well-managed.
\- end of 240 yr nepalese monarchy looms --jcarter@peanut.org
\_ Overfishing has never been the problem with the salmon industry
on the West Coast - it is one of the most heavily regulated in
the world. The reasons for the decline of the salmon are a lot
more complicated than that - check out the book "Cadillac Desert"
if you're really interested. My dad worked in salmon restoration
for 35 years, so this is a topic I'm wearily familiar with.
--lye
\_ My point is that the fishery didn't suddenly collapse over the
last 6 years because of anything people did or did not do.
It has to be climate-related. The fish will bounce back
when conditions return to more normal as long as they
are not fished out during the recovery.
\_ http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=overfishing-could-take-se
Many world fisheries are close to collapse, or have
already passed that point.
\_"The rivers that drain the Sierra used to flow through the
valleys and into the ocean; millions and millions of gallons
poured through the Golden Gate. First Shasta Dam diverted
water from the Sacramento; then the Friant Dam was built to
take water from the San Joaquin River. All these rivers and
their tributaries were prime salmon runs."
--> FUCK LA.
\_ San Francisco and San Jose get their water from the Sierra
too.
\_ How about the fustercluck that is Hetch Hetchy,
dammed for the benefit of San Francisco:
"Dam Hetch Hetchy! As well dam for water-tanks the
people's cathedrals and churches, for no holier
temple has ever been consecrated by the heart of
man." -- John Muir
It feels a lot better to blame it all on LA, though.
\_ Your lack of knowledge on the subject of water
diversion and the history of water projects in the
West is showing. Please give "Cadillac Desert" a
\_ It is? Please enlighten me, because I know
a lot about the subject and Mr. Mulholland.
try. You won't regret it, it's a great book.
Needless to say, Hetch hetchy doesn't have much to
do with the salmons decline, but it is part of the
\_ It doesn't and I never said it did. However,
let's be real about who is grabbing water
from where. Hetch Hetchy was completely
ruined for the benefit of SF, not LA. If SF
had remained the largest city in CA then
the water would be flowing there instead.
It wasn't going to remain in the rivers as
long as the population grew.
same mentality the led to the destruction of
California rivers. The real water grab by
Los Angeles was in an entirely different place -
Owens Valley. This was fictionalized in the movie
"Chinatown." The municipalities aren't the real
villians, though - the real problem is the
subsidized federal and state projects which give
farmers massive incentives to waste enormous
amounts of water.
--lye
\_ Maybe when people stop growing rice in the
desert for pennies per gallon I'll stop
watering my lawn, but what does this
have to do with salmon decline over the
last 6 years? Nothing. If you feel
something changed (e.g. water flows)
then say so, but I have seen no one
mention anything like that. What I see
are comments about pumps, dams, and so
on: none of which have changed recently
AFAIK. What did change was the amount of
food in the ocean. Occam's Razor is at
work here. We can have a healthy salmon
fishery even with things as messed up as
they are, but sometimes things happen
outside of our control. The ban will
allow the salmon to recover as long as
ocean conditions remain close to normal,
as they are now.
\_ None of this has changed in the last 6 years.
\_ I really wish you were right, but it is sadly much more
stark than that. The resource has been in serious decline
for many long decades, primarly due to habitat destruction
and water diversion. You are correct that there is a
cyclic nature to the population, mosly due to the life
cycle of the fishes. There will be something of an uptick
at some point - but it's just noise in a population graph
that essentially represents a remnant. |
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