Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2008:March:24 Monday <Sunday, Tuesday>
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2008/3/24-27 [Transportation/Car/RoadHogs, Transportation/Car/Hybrid] UID:49546 Activity:nil
3/24    X Prize for 100mpg vehicles: http://www.csua.org/u/l3w
        I think the 100mph requirement for the mainstream category is too high.
        Something like 85-90mph will be more useful.  OTOH I think it should
        add a crash test requirement to that category.
        \_ Put up your own prize money.
2008/3/24 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:49547 Activity:high
3/23    Raise your hand if you don't know what motdedit is or why you should
        use it.
        And/or: Why does the motd seem to travel back in time?
        \_ Raise your hand if you don't care about motdedit.
        \_ motdedit is for the weak.  we've been over this.
        \_ The time travel thing is the result of censor/restore wars.
2008/3/24-27 [Politics/Domestic/President/Reagan, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:49548 Activity:nil
3/24    An honest dialogue about race
        http://www.balloon-juice.com/?p=9955
        \_ I see very little honesty there.
2008/3/24 [Science/GlobalWarming] UID:49549 Activity:nil 97%like:49553
3/24    Oops, biofuels are worse re greenhouse gasses
        http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2008/03/24/ap4806595.html
        http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120631198956758087.html?mod=googlenews_wsj
2008/3/24-27 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:49550 Activity:kinda low
3/24    Wow, you'd think with all that experience, Hillary wouldn't be such a
        bad liar (re: visit to Bosnia).
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=It6JN7ALF7
        \_ The press covered for Hill&Bill for 15+ years.  They didn't have
           to be good liars.  They got busted all through the 90s but mostly
           the press ignored it.  Now that the press is leaning heavily to
           Obama, they are showing the world what the Clintons always were
           and cover for Obama instead.  All very amusing.
        \_ The primaries will never end.  I suspect Hillary and Obama will be
           gearing up for their 3000th debate right around the Inauguration
           of McCain.
           \_ ALGOR is going to settle this by becoming the nominee.
              \- Must not destroy Robot.
        \_ She doesn't actually kiss the little 8 year old Bosnian girl.
           She just makes a kissing motion but presses her cheek against
           her.
        \- This really has gone beyond "spin" and exaggeration to lying.
        \- This really has gone beyond "spin" and exaggeration (ALGOR &&
           the Internet) to lying:
           On Bosnia, see:
             http://tinyurl.com/2k8yxg [wapo]
           On Northern Ireland, see:
             http://tinyurl.com/2ff9xe ... this time not a comedian,
           but a Nobel Prize winner.
             http://tinyurl.com/2ff9xe
           (this time not a comedian, but a Nobel Prize winner)
           This kind of thing is beyond "mere sleaze" like this:
             http://tinyurl.com/2sbrjo
           I know this is really long [20min], but it is a much more
           eloquent and cogent version of "why i [psb] hate hillary clinton"
           than i could put together:
             http://lessig.org/blog/2008/02/20_minutes_or_so_on_why_i_am_4.html
           It's about a month out of date but still very worth listening to,
           particularly if you have come to appreciate "character matters"
           It's about a month out of date but still very much worth listening
           to, particularly if you have come to appreciate "character matters"
           in who you vote for, rather than just the policy bundle [which a
           lot of ex-BUSHCO supporters have come to realize]. I strongly,
           strongly, strongly encourage any fence sitters of good conscience
           to watch that [if you have both feet on the Hillary side, I dont
           have much to say to you]. --psb
           \_ Some girl who wants to ***** my ***** out is for Hillary.
              so I'm for Hillary.
              \_ Thanks for posting the url though.  I wonder if I can find
                 an Obama girl...
                 \- one reason the anti-abortion nutjobs and are powerful
                    beyond their numbers, is they are spending their friday
                    nights and sat afternoons agitating, while "apathetic"`
                    younger people are out tring to find people to ***** their
                    ***** out. but supposedly people can combine activism and
                    socializing in the obama campaign [this is secondhand].
                    i thought most of the people you'ld have met at a hillary
                    rally are menopausal women and economic losers? anyway,
                    after you both go your own ways, be sure to tell her the
                    only reason you "went through the hillary supporting
                    motions" was so she'd "go through the motions". be sure
                    to refer to hillary as "the sanctimonious hypocritical
                    liar" so she knows which hillary you are talking about.
           \_ Uhm, I suspect most people reading the motd have already had
              their shot at primary voting.  Who are you trying to convince?
2008/3/24-27 [Uncategorized] UID:49551 Activity:nil
3/24    These free Tibet fuckers are pissing me off, just like those LA
        riot assholes. They should be taken outside and shot like
        animals. Free Tibet my ass.
        \_ I know this is only Monday but even so I nominate you for,
           "Weakest Troll Of The Week" award!  I don't think anyone will
           come up with anything lamer by Friday.
        \_ Any chance that the Chinese govt was that one setting fire on their
           own embassy in SF?
        \_ Ok, how about Free the Whales people? Free Willy?
2008/3/24-25 [Finance/Banking, Reference/Tax] UID:49552 Activity:high
3/24    Opinion: companies that require tax-payer funded bailouts should pay
        for this privilege in advance as a kind of insurance. -- ilyas
        \_ So you advocate a business tax?  I don't think we need a new
           business tax.  I don't think we need bailouts either.  Let them
           take their lumps and retire with what they've already stolen.
           Ban them all from every working in finance again to prevent
           recycling these criminal idiots and let the markets recover
           without government tampering.  No bailouts.  No silly taxes.
        \_ No need for laws/rules, the free market will take care of it.
           Requiring anything extra will stifle competition and make
           US less competitive to other countries. No.
           \_ It's very simple, if you want free taxpayer money in case of a
              'catastrophe,' you need to pay the taxpayers a premium.  This
              isn't just about the latest financial meltdown, but also
              airlines, farming, etc. -- ilyas
        \_ Seems kind of redundant, given the presence of private insurance.
           So I guess what you're saying is that companies should not be bailed
           out. Which isn't very interesting but I agree.
           \_ I am prepared to admit that bailouts might be necessary in
              some cases, I just want to make the fuckers pay for this.
                -- ilyas
        \_ Yes, this is essentially what the FDIC is all about. It is obvious
           that these IBs need a similar level of regulation. What pisses me
           off is that the BSC shareholders are going to get billions from
           the taxpayers. I was okay with a $2 (fuck you) bailout, because
           I understand the risk to the financial system, but why $10?
           \_ I'm fine with the shadow banking system getting a bailout, so
              long as they're willing to submit to regulation and oversight
              (just like ordinary commercial banks).  If you want to operate
              with impunity, that's fine, but you shouldn't expect the
              goverment to swoop in and save your stupid ass when you mess up.
              \_ The purpose of the bailout wasn't to protect the company,
                 but to build confidence in our financial system and to
                 prevent from market melt-down. Ultimately, the goal is
                 to protect the American dollar, hence everyone wins.
                 \_ It is more prudent to protect the American dollar by
                    regulating dangerous behavior by financial institutions,
                    than it is to let them screw everything up and then
                    bail them out.  -tom
                    \_ I don't think anyone will disagree with you except
                       the it doesn't change the fact that dangerous behavior
                       already happened. It's as helpful as trying to preach
                       safe sex to people who already got a bunch of STDs.
                       \- "first you have at admit you have a problem^W^W^W^W
                          there was a bail out".
                 \_ What if there was no BSC bailout?  Exactly what dire
                    effects for all of us are we trying to prevent?  Dollar
                    devaluation, is that what you're saying?  I think that
                    would be temporary.  The broader macroeconomic policies
                    of the fed. gov't seem more important.  In a larger sense,
                    bailouts undermine the entire market.  The only real
                    accountability executives have is to their shareholders.
                    The only way to force that accountability is to make the
                    prospect of shareholders losing their shirts very real.
                    \_ There are real concerns of a domino effect; a BSC
                       failure would put liquidity pressure on all the other
                       institutions which hold BSC debt, which could lead to
                       more failures.  Complete meltdown of the financial
                       system is not outside the realm of possibility.
                       Still, bailing out BSC sucks.  -tom
                       \_ Yeah I mean, I would think they should let BSC die
                          ignobly, and even let a couple other dominoes fall
                          perhaps. Bail out when it actually does seem
                          necessary; let some smaller fish take over. I'm
                          skeptical of a term like "complete meltdown of the
                          financial system". I'm sure the most irresponsible
                          entities would like to trumpet themselves as being
                          key to the entire "financial system" and therefore
                          must be saved from their own mistakes. Just like
                          any corporate welfare is couched in noble terms.
                          \_ Yes, and this is exactly the problem with the
                             shadow system.  Without any regulatory oversight
                             or standards, who really knows what is lurking
                             behind BSC?  Maybe they really are the key!
                             Or maybe not...
                             I hate to drag out that hoary old quote from
                             Buffet about derivatives being "financial
                             weapons of mass destruction," but in this
                             case it seems warranted.
                    \_ Dire?  Think of all the yachts that won't be bought
                       that year!  My God!  Think of the yacht makers'
                       children!
                       \_ LANDLORD WITH A YACHT!
                     \_ Go read up on the panics the economy used to routinely
                        experience in the late 1800's, with unemployment in
                        the 20%+ range and bank runs and get back to me with
                        any questions.
                        \_ http://www.usagold.com/gildedopinion/greenspan.html
        \_ The Financial Times agrees with you, as do I. -ausman
           http://www.csua.org/u/l4i
                        \_ Why don't you point us to something? And also say
                           what your point is.
2008/3/24-27 [Science/GlobalWarming] UID:49553 Activity:nil 97%like:49549
3/24    Oops, biofuels are worse re greenhouse gasses
        http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2008/03/24/ap4806595.html
        http://preview.tinyurl.com/yv7nyg [wsj]
2008/3/24-27 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java] UID:49554 Activity:kinda low
3/24    http://plone.org/about/movies
        Java is the COBOL of 21st century, as exaggerated by the author.
        Scroll to the bottom and click that video.
        \_ Wow, what a weak argument.  It boils down to "properties are good!"
           No balance about drawbacks of Python, and a tremendously weak
           analysis of Ruby.
           \_ Java is the crapness.  Admit it.
              \_ Oh, I happily admit it. -pp
        \_ C.  High enough level to get work done, low enough level to do
           anything you need.
           \_ Any language without garbage collection is a lose.  Development/
              debug time is tons higher.  (There are places where C is good,
              but most of them are native calls inside tight loops.)
              \_ Garbage collection is just a crutch for sloppy programming.
                 \_ Wrong.  Garbage collection lets you build code that doesn't
                    have to worry about lifespan issues.  That's a huge win.
                    Yes, 99% of all memory allocation issues are easy, but
                    that 1% will kill you.
        \_ I've used C, Java and Ruby and this is one of the most content-free
           arguments I've seen on the topic of language choice.
2008/3/24-27 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:49555 Activity:low
3/24    CBS has picked up the Hillary/Bosnia snafu
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8BfNqhV5hg4
        \- ^snafu^lie
        \_ Snafu?  You meant to say "lie".  There's a looong way from "We were
           under threat of death from sniper fire!  They send the First Lady
           when it is too dangerous to send the President!" to "We hopped off
           the plane into a beautiful sunny day where young local girls tossed
           flowers at us".
           \_ The interesting thing was how she invented an entire long story
              extolling the evasive capabilities of the transport plane and
              pantomimed "running to the cars".  "And that's how it happened."
              Just bizarre.  And now she said "I misspoke" which is another
              lie.
              \- I am not sure what the Clinton equivalent of "faith-based
                 community" is, but it's not "reality based". Maybe "Hillary-
                 expedient-recovered-memory-based". I agree with you the
                 "vividness" of some of her recollections are disturbing ...
                 like she has some kind of heroic delusion. I think she
                 actually believes she is more clever than Bill Clinton,
                 which is clearly untrue. If she loses, I wonder if they
                 will effectively split up.
2008/3/24-27 [Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:49556 Activity:very high
3/24    McCain's endless free ride
        http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2008_03/013394.php
        \_ McCain's free ride will end when Hillary finally gives up.  He's
           going to get slaughtered.  -tom
           \_ Maybe. I wish I shared your confidence in that.
                \_ No kidding, Bush was going to get "slaughtered" too how the
                   the heck does a bumbling incompetent get [s]elected twice?
                   \_ c.f. "Idiocracy"
                   \_ I didn't think Bush was going to get slaughtered.  The
                      situation is completely different today.  McCain will
                      be viewed as the candidate of yesterday; he will win if
                      people think the country's current state is good.
                      What do you think?  -tom
                      \_ Unless the Dems get their act together and nominate
                         ALGOR, McCain is going to be our next president. It
                         is fairly clear that Billary can't win. I used to
                         think Obama could win but Billary has really done a
                         number on him in the last few weeks. Because of this
                         I think McCain has a good chance of beating Obama.
                         I think McCain has a very good chance of beating
                         Obama.
                         I think McCain will most likely beat Obama.
                         \_ The idea of Al Gore as a candidate is laughable.
                            He had enormous advantages over Dubya and still
                            lost.  He lost his own home state.  He's got one
                            strong topic, the environment, which doesn't seem
                            like a major issue in this campaign.  -tom
                            \_ ALGOR's biggest advantage is the realization
                               of the electorate of how different things would
                               have been if he had become President in 2000.
                               Also, unlike Obama, he hasn't been broken down
                               by Billary. At this point, he is probably the
                               only democrat who can take on McCain and win.
                               \_ Asserting that again doesn't make it any
                                  less stupid.  -tom
                     \_ Do you really think people who voted for Dubya in 2004
                        will vote for Obama now? I think it will be the usual
                        red vs. blue scenario.
                        \_ Yes, I do.  Something happening twice doesn't make
                           it the "usual" scenario.  Votes are a lot more
                           elastic than that.  Ronald Reagan carried New York.
                           Clinton carried Georgia.  -tom
                           \_ Consider: McCain is less polarizing, seen as more
                              moderate, than Bush. Obama is more polarizing
                              than Kerry or Gore, apparently: for the racial
                              issue if not the political issues.
                              I rate their chances as 50/50 either way. It will
                              depend on what media events happen between now
                              and November. But don't take my word for it:
                              http://preview.tinyurl.com/2yke8u
                              The trend is actually for McCain. Saying McCain
                              is going to get slaughtered is delusional. It's
                              typical for you guys to delude yourself about
                              the appeal of the Republican candidates. You
                              don't understand the R voters.
                              The only way McCain will get slaughtered is if
                              he goes senile and cracks up on national TV:
                              his age is his weakness.
                              \_ I understand R voters just fine, you don't
                                 understand swing voters at all. They care
                                 mostly about the economy, which is going to
                                 hell. Who do you think they are going to blame
                                 for this? How much do you want to bet on the
                                 outcome? -ausman
                                 \_ I don't want to bet. I already said I
                                    rate the chances 50/50. If I want to bet
                                    near 50/50 I'll go play craps somewhere.
                                    I pointed to polls showing 50/50. Are you
                                    a Swami who foretells some vast shift
                                    in public opinions within the next 6
                                    months? It's not very credible to
                                    place blame for all problems at the feet
                                    of the incumbent party. The D's voted
                                    us into Iraq also. The D's have controlled
                                    Congress lately.
                                    \_ Intrade and the Iowa markets have it
                                    \_ Intrade and the other markets have it
                                       more like 60/40. But I am sure all the
                                       people betting there are not as wise
                                       and experienced in these things as you
                                       are. I expect the polls to change
                                       pretty hard against McCain after the
                                       Democratic nomination. And a majority
                                       of Democrats in Congress voted against
                                       the Iraq War. Retelling that tired
                                       old lie of yours doesn't make it any
                                       more convincing.
                                       \_ The Senate is not Congress? A lot of
                                          D's voted for it, and a majority in
                                          the Senate. D's control Congress.
                                          D's continue to fund the war. I think
                                          I was mentioning delusions a couple
                                          posts ago.
                                          McCain hasn't really begun to fight.
                                          You really think it's so obvious?
                                          You should go bet on Intrade, those
                                          40-something ask prices are ripe for
                                          the picking.
                                          \_ You are the one claiming that it
                                             is 50/50, you should be grabbing
                                             all the 40's you can.
                                             \_ The topic here started with
                                                someone questioning tom's
                                                claim that McCain will get
                                                "slaughtered". If you want
                                                to define what that means
                                                (Obama gets >60% of pop vote?)
                                                then maybe I could bet against
                                                that.
                                                I'm not claiming Obama will
                                                lose. I don't like the odds
                                                enough to risk losing. You
                                                are the one who is apparently
                                                certain of the outcome. My
                                                entire point is that it's
                                                uncertain. (Someone else
                                                claimed McCain would win.)
                                                \_ I am not certain, but I
                                                   think the race is the
                                                   Democrats to lose. They
                                                   might just do that though.
2017/09/20 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
9/20    
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2008:March:24 Monday <Sunday, Tuesday>