3/6     Codys 4th st in Berkeley is having a gigantic sale,
        in prep for their move to downtown Berkeley.

3/6     http://www.csua.org/u/kyy (Yahoo! Finance)
        "The average cost of owning and driving a car 15,000 miles a year is
        $7,830 according to AAA. SUVs are even more costly, at $9,990 per
        year."
        Wow!
        \_ I guess that sounds about right. My cost has been less than half
           of that (~$3k/yr) but I drive near half as much. That also
           doesn't include resale value of my car, but my car won't have much
           in that department. And of course I'm not including taxes and
           environmental costs associated with owning and driving my car.
        \_ How long does it take to grow $652/mo into $1M? By my calculations,
           about 25 years, if you invest in the stock market. So I can retire
           at least 10 years early by getting rid of one car.
           \_ Or by getting a efficient dependable used car.  Say a late
              90's/early 00's corolla.
              \_ $652/mo is average. Even an older car costs almost that
                 much.
                 \_ Gas (15k mi/yr): $145/mo for 30mpg at $3.50 a gallon
                    Depeciation on a car that old: negligible, say $50/mo.
                    Insurance: ~$50 mo.
                    \_ Are you out of your mind? $50/month?! I wish. I pay
                       $2400/year for two cars with no accidents or tickets.
                       \_ If you pay that much for an 8-9 year compact car
                          without comprehensive or at least a really high
                          deductable, you are paying way too much.
                          \_ Depends on what coverage you want and I
                             wouldn't drop comprehensive. I had my 1993
                             Honda stolen and I was glad I had it.
                             \_ When your car is worth ~4k comprehensive
                                adds up to the price of your car pretty
                                damn quickly.
                                \_ Eh. $400/year is worth it for $4K.
                    Repairs: less than $50/mo.
                    That's a about half the cost.  Not so bad.  (Oh and 15k
                    miles a year is a lot for a car that you can live without.
                    If you are doing 15k miles on a bus that is going to
                    SUCK.)
                    \_ http://www.csua.org/u/kz9
                       (even without any depreciation, that is $5100/yr)
                       I trust Edmund's numbers better than yours.
                       \_ Depeciation looks like I was high.  (See how by
                          year 5 it is ~50/mo.  Taxes are going to be lower
                          because you bought it used.  Insurance is going to
                          be lower because you shouldn't have comprehensive.
                          Financing is non existant if you buy it used.
                          Gas I seem to be a bit high.  So knock OFF 10-20/mo.
                          Mantenance/repairs seem silly high to me, I've
                          never needed to spend that much on my car.

3/6     Starting a Web 2.0, scaling up slowly.  Should we go the
        physical-servers-in-a-colo route, or go for some sort of scalable
        virtual hosting?
        \_ At start?  Do the cheapest thing possible.  When you're ready to
           get something real going hire someone who knows wth they're doing
           to help you if you haven't done a colo before (sounds like not).
           Otherwise you'll be sorry later when you have a pile of useless
           hardware and a broken architecture that can't support your site.
           \_ The person who'll be doing it is me.  I've setup colos before,
              but not in the last 5 years.  I was just wondering if the
              "best practice" for small startup had changed due to new players
              like the Amazon virtual hosting thing.
              \_ How big do you think you are going to be at start?  If one
                 or two machines can handle it, throw one or two machines
                 somewhere cheap and don't worry about it.  There's no best
                 practice for a site that gets in the order of 1000s of hits
                 a day.
             \_ The only best practice you need to worry about at the
                beginning like that is to ensure that your data is backed
                up. If you get enough traffic to warrent it, you can do
                a cost/benefits analysis of hosting vs. colo.
              \_ I am aware of a wide range of startups using Amazon's EC2,
                 usually in conjunction with S3. The advantage is that it's
                 dead easy to add more resources as needed, and I get the
                 impression that it's not too hard to migrate away from when
                 and if you grow to the point where having your own hardware
                 becomes economical. Plus, Amazon has way more resources to
                 dedicate to infrastructure than you do.

3/6     Electric cars could threaten water resources:
        http://preview.tinyurl.com/3y66at (newscientist.com)
        \_ Quote from the article:
           "...... agrees that water scarcity will become an increasing
           problem for utilities, but he doesn't think electric vehicle usage
           will have much of an impact."
           \_ The authors of the study referenced in the first part of the
              article think there will be an impact unless there are some
              changes to car design and/or the sources of power (wind, solar).
        \_ We're going to be getting more and more of our oil from the Alberta
           tar sands (production of which consumes a large amount of water)
           and like the article says its the design of electric power plants
           that's the problem, not electric cars themselves.

3/5     i give up.  im using google chat, in the browser.  it works
        great.  google chat on my cell phone works great too.
        it all works.  google owns me.
        \_ I use Adium so I don't care which chat client the other person
           is using...

3/6     Rings found around Saturn's moon Rhea:
        http://preview.tinyurl.com/3b5q37 (newscientist.com)
        \_ You know, is it possible for a moon to have a moon?
           \_ I wondered the same thing when I read that article. Its a
              big universe out there, anything is possible.

3/6     Dear emacs expert, how do I make emacs highlight leading
        spaces (but ignore tabs)?

3/6     im thinking of swithcing over completely to Vonage.
        Wasn't Vonage about to be sued out of existence?
        What happened with thta?
        \_ While it's not bad enough to switch, my Vonage line quality is
           bad enough that I would not recommend it. YMMV.
        \_ Here's what I really want to do.  I have my own cell phone.  I have
           groovy work iphone.  I carry both.  I want to transfer my cell
           phone number to some Vonage like service, and call forward it to
           work iphone.  I want to cancel my personal cell plan.  When I get
           fired from work, I want to be able to easily forward it to another
           future work cell phone plan.
        \_ While it's not bad enought to switch, my Vonage line quality is bad enough
           that I would not recommend it. YMMV.
        \_ Try skype with a Skype-enabled cordless WiFi phone.

3/6     Mormon update:
        I think I'd have to convert and lead her into the temple
        and on the bath to eternal progression if I want to continue
        seeing her.  blah.
        \_ How far would she go without an engagement?
        \_ I know some guys around here who could use and eternal bath.
        \_ Wuality comes with costs.

3/6     Did HANS REISER ever have a Soda account?  Anyone else think
        his 'my back hurts so I sleep in my car a lot to ease the pain'
        story is kind of leem?
        \_ I think running down your poor deceased wife on the stand
           is not likely a good court strategy.
           \_ Just wait until the cross-examination; it will be theater
              of the higest order.
              The gem from yesterday is Hans talking about how men don't
              need marriage, financially, so they're being very altruistic,
              because it's cheaper to hire a housekeeper.  -tom
              \_ Is the jury 100% bitter divorced guys? If not, HR is in
                 big trouble.
              \_ Much cheaper to hire a hooker. I have an acquaintance who
                 is a very wealthy man. He married a younger woman 'for
                 love' without a prenup. She left after a year or two. He
                 told me that he calculated it cost him $50K for every
                 time he banged her.
                 \_ You should volunteer to be a character witness for
                    poor Hans.
        \_ Those in attendance were: (in no particular order)
           Alan Coopersmith (alanc)        Eddy Karat (karat)
           E. Mark Ping (emarkp)           Hans Reiser (reiser)
           Nicholas Weaver (nweaver)       David Paschich (dpassage)
           Kier Morgan (kmorgan)           Kinshuk Govil (kinshuk)
           David Friedman (davidf)         Eric Hollander (hh)
           George Herbert (gwh)            Sean Welch (welch)
           Steve Huntsberry (steveh)       Lee Haynes (haynes)
           Partha S. Banerjee (psb)        Roy S. Rapoport (rsr)
           Adam Richter (adam)             Eric Mehlhaff (mehlhaff)
           \_ attendance of what? A general meeting?
             \_ Looks like an OCF Board of Directors meeting. -ERic
        \_ I don't know, Hans is obviously crazy, so it's hard to tell what
           he thinks is reasonable.

3/6     Hey, where did all my PHIL tools go?  How can you expect me to
        not get any work done without them?

3/6     I can't stand The Hillary, but I don't like Obama's chances
        in the election.  I love Obama like a brother (tee hee!) but
        he's the most liberal member of the Senate, why would middle
        America vote for him instead of Hang 'Em High McCain?

3/6     When I run my car heater, am I getting heat for free?  Is it
        just rerouting engine heat into the inside of my car?  Or
        am I consuming a lot more fuel, increasing my fuel consumption?
        \_ Yes, engine heat. Fancier cars may heat it until the engine warms up.
        \_ Yes, engine heat. Fancier cars may heat it until the engine warms
           up.

3/6     Do BBW women enjoy sex more than really skinny girls?  I think
        the momentum of all that fat flying everywhere stimulates
        a pleasurable nerve cluster.

3/6     Do women with enormous breasts get breast cancer at a higher
        rate than women who can barely fill out a AA cup?

3/6     how do i hook up YAHOO CHAT to my google chat?

3/6     Housing, Bank Troubles Deepen
        Foreclosures set record
        Aggregate equity drops to 47.9%
        http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120485071664018195.html
        "Housing, it always goes up!"
        "Buy now, before you get freezed out!"
        "They aren't making more land!"
        "We're special!"
        "... if you own something, you have a vital stake in the future of our
        country. The more ownership there is in America, the more vitality
        there is in America, and the more people have a vital stake in the
        future of this country."
         \_ So far anyway, this is actually true.
        "... if you own something, you have a vital stake in the future of our
        country. The more ownership there is in America, the more vitality
        there is in America, and the more people have a vital stake in the
        future of this country."
        future of this country." -Dubya

3/6     Is there a USB 802.11g device that works with linux AND supports
        base station mode, promiscuous mode and packet injection?

3/6     SEPULVEDA IS CLOSED!!! It's all over news! It's the end of the
        world in W Los Angeles OH NOES the 405 is fucked too WHAT TO DO???
        \_ speaking of reasons why it's good to have at least two different
           infrastructure modes.
           \_ The 101 and the 405, that is two, right?
              \_ And they're building a carpool lane N bound from 405
                 to 101 interchange, so make that THREE redundant
                 infrastructures. HAr HAR HAR

3/6     No one remembers that the national Dems warned FL Dems not to have
        their early primary?  And FL Dems chose to do it anyway (deciding not
        to have a caucus later)?
        http://www.sptimes.com/2007/06/13/State/Florida_primary_will_.shtml
        \_ I remember, why did you forget or something? The FL voters
           are always trying to twist the rules to their advantage, remember
           2000?
           \_ That wasn't the voters