Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2008:February:18 Monday <Sunday, Tuesday>
Berkeley CSUA MOTD
2008/2/18-21 [Computer/SW/Languages/Java] UID:49174 Activity:nil
2/16    A friend is interested in graphing relationships in a large group,
        including finding n-way relationships. I suggested a mass-springs
        approach, and I seem to recall a ton of those online in the early Java
        Applet days.  Anyone know of something like that online now?
        \- a while ago i used graphviz, although i am not sure that is
           what i would do today. do you need directionality? see e.g.
  [large image]
           \_ Directionality could be a plus. That looks perfect.
              \- who are you?
        \_ You might also want to look into sel-organizing maps and
           multidimensional scaling. - ciyer
2008/2/18-21 [Reference/RealEstate] UID:49175 Activity:high
2/16    So I have been holding off, waiting until real estate comes down
        enough to make investing make sense. Are there any areas in California
        where buying property makes sense from an investing persepctive, i.e.
        it is cash flow positive after paying mortgage, taxes and maintenance?
        \_ I just bought a cash positive rental unit in E. Oakland.  I know
           there are a lot more available.  Lots of condos being built so I'm
           sure that there will be a lot of push to clean up the neighborhoods.
           As soon as I get this one fixed up I'll be looking for another.
           Also, there is an estimated 10,000 new people moving into that area
           within the next few the value has no where to go but up.
           To tell you the truth its a great time to be a landlord.
           \_ Now this is what I am talking about. Which neighborhood did
              you buy in? Did you just buy one unit in a building or the
              whole building? -OP
        \_ Bakersfield, Stockton, Riverside, Fresno.
           I highly recommend the followings: Rancho Cucamonga, Chino,
           Corona, Upland, Fontana. Basically all the areas with a lot
           of poor people with lots of kids and SUVs and minivans and
           want to have a home but can't afford it.
           \_ Uh, right now those are the areas that are melting down.
              \_ ding ding ding you got it! that's why it's good to invest
               \_ Nope, you are better waiting for the freefall to end and
                  get in as things start to uptick.  Yes you will pay a bit
                  more than if you bought at the very bottom, but chances
                  are you are going to guess wrong.  (Hint, right now things
                  are still going to fall for a while, especially in those
                  \_ 1) You don't know that prices are going to continue
                        to fall.
                        \_ No I don't, but it sure has hell looks like they
                           haven't stopped falling.  And it is stupid to buy
                           now if you can wait a few months and pay 10% less.
                           Really, really stupid.  Even if you plan to hold
                           on for a long time.  For one thing that means you
                           rents will probably have to go down, and that will
                           mean you may no longer be cash positive.  Right now
                           is not a good time to get into the landlord game.
                           \_ Why would rents go down? Have they been going
                              down in those areas? I know they have been going
                              up in the Bay Area. I probably won't buy until
                              it looks like the market has stabilized, but
                              trying to time the bottom is a fool's game.
                              \_ Rents go down when housing prices go down
                                 because people who can't sell their houses
                                 rent them out, which causes an increase of
                                 rentable units, which lowers rents
                                 \_ And here I thought that rents went up
                                    when more people who couldn't afford to be
                                    home owners became renters, therefore
                                    increasing the demand for rental property.
                                    Have rents been going up or down in the
                                    Inland Empire?
                                    \_ I think it depends on what percentage
                                       of housing is bought as speculation.
                                       In some markets (like Vegas) it was
                                       something like 25% (insane).  Those
                                       people already own a residence ...
                     2) That's why I want a place that is cash flow positive.
                        If it makes me a decent rate of return, I don't really
                        care what the face value is. I would intend to hold
                        onto it for a long time in this case.
                  \_ Ever heard the phrase "catching a falling knife"?
                   \_ Yeah and unless you have a really good understanding
                      of the market and a high tolerance for risk it is a
                      stupid thing to do.  The OP doesn't seem to have either.
                      \_ What makes you think that I don't have a high
                         tolerance for risk? -OP
                         \_ Your list of requirements
                            \_ You actually have a point, but as scottyg
                               pointed out, it is not really an unreasonable
           \_ poor people make crappy tenants.
              \_ that may be true but poor ppl are the reason why
                 they're tenants. thank god for poor ppl or else landlords
                 will not benefit from them.
           \_ I don't think that is true in Riverside, at least not yet:
              That place rents for $1800 and would sell for about $400k
              right now, which just doesn't pencil out. It might make sense
              at $300k. Or are you referring to multi-family housing?
        \_ Santa Clara County
        \_ Fremont, excluding the Mission San Jose district.
        \_ Sure, if you find the right property. It can be anywhere if you
           look hard enough.
           \_ Find me one in SF, please. I doubt you can find anything that
              has a positive IRR that is less than 8 units.
              \_ What's my commission if I find you something and what's
                 your price range?
                 \_ You could have hot gay sex with me regardless of
                    your ugliness.
        \_ Even if you find a rentable property do you *really* want to deal
           with being a landlord?  Are you going to turn over daily management
           to some company that will eat whatever profits you might make or go
           over there yourself with wrench in hand every time there is a
           plumbing problem?  And how much do you lose if it takes a month to
           get new tenants in when the old ones leave?
           \_ Actually, I already am a landlord, since I own a two unit
              property in SF and live in one and rent out the other, so I
              have a pretty good idea of what is involved. All investments
              take some time and energy. You should calculate the vacancy
              rate (5% or so) into your total return. If you are a good
              landlord, it will probably be lower than that.
              \_ So much for Haight/Ashbury's free sex free drugs free
                 whatever socialist movements.
                 \_ Gas, grass or ass, no one rides for free.
           \_ I rented out my previous home in Fremont and got my real estate
              agent to also be the manager.  His cut is 10% of the rent.  It
              took us two months to find the first tenants, and they have been
              there ever since for 4.5 years.  So far I still have never met
              the tenant once, nor did I need to go to the house to check out
              or fix anything.  -- !OP
              \_ Just curious, are you still making a profit, even after
                 the 10% cut? Would you have done better selling the house
                 and putting the money in T-Bills?
2008/2/18-21 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton, Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:49176 Activity:nil
2/16    Poverty is Poison:
        \_ You know, this article started off good until it got to "But
           progress stalled thereafter: American politics shifted to
           the right..." which has the effect of turning off 1/2 of the
           readers in the U.S. On the other hand, I don't know any
           conservative reading NY times so maybe it's well fitted.
        \- if you are interested in this topic, read WHY ZEBRAS DONT GET
           ULCERS. very, very good book. [the book is primarily about
           something else, but coverns this in some depth as well]. --psb
2008/2/18-21 [Recreation/Celebrity/BritneySpears] UID:49177 Activity:high
2/16    Lindsay Lohan 10 years ago:
        Lindsay Lohan now:
        \_ I understand why famous people are famous.  I don't understand why
           anyone cares about them, especially entertainment figures.
           \_ It's escapism - modern soap opera.  And it makes lots and lots
              of money:
        \_ Look at all those black dots all over her body.
           \_ Those are called "freckles".  Hot white girls get those.
              \_ Why do they make the girls hot?  IMO they are ugly.
                 \_ You're an idiot.
        \_ Man, drugs are not helping here.
2008/2/18-19 [Recreation/Music] UID:49178 Activity:moderate
2/19    TIW:
        \_ what is "TIW"?
           \- this is weird
              \_ TIFS.
2008/2/18-19 [Uncategorized] UID:49179 Activity:nil
2/18    I'm not dead yet, so quit asking. - jvarga
        \_ What??? What is this all about?
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2008:February:18 Monday <Sunday, Tuesday>