1/22    Sweet, Bush's stimulus package is nearly *twice as large* as the
        one Clinton proposed in 1993, but couldn't get passed.  Go
        Bushonomics!
        \_ So who are you blasting? Is it a good idea that was unfairly spiked
           in 1993, so....Bush is bad?
           \_ Dunno about op, but I find it to be more evidence of how BushCo
              is lacking in principles, even ones I don't support. Morally
              bankrupt doesn't do it justice.
              \_ Wait, wasn't congress a majority D in 1993?  What does this
                 have to do with BushCo?  Okay, now checking:
                 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/103rd_United_States_Congress
                 The D's had a majority in both houses and the presidency. How
                 does what they failed to pass mean anything wrt Bush?
                 \_ Clinton proposed a stimulus package that would have raised
                    the Deficit; har, har, snicker conservatives, typical Dem.
                    Bush proposes _twice as large_ stim package, yet pretends
                    to be fiscally conservative Rep in the tradition of Reagan.
                    The irony is enough to cure world-wide anemia.
                    \_ Reagan was never fiscally conservative.
                       Reagan == trickle down economics. High deficit spending
                       is not being fiscally conservative. Ron Paul is the
                       only current candidate promoting fiscal conservativism.
                    \_ Bush hasn't pretended to be fiscally conservative for a
                       long time.  It's why he's lost a lot of his base. See
                       the thread from 1/18 on that very topic. -emarkp
                       \_ Now you're memorizing threads+date? Dang you're
                          a major motd-snob.
                          \_ more like a major motd-geek than a motd-snob.
                          \_ No, I'm not memorizing it, I just remember
                             mentioning it a few days ago. Checking the history
                             was easy. -emarkp
                       \_ Yes, you know that, I know that, lots of people
                          know that. He still keeps pretending.
        \_ So the real story is that Clinton proposed an R idea, and a D
           congress shot it down?
           \_ The real story is that there are no conspiracies. It's all out
              in the open.
        \_ These economic stimulus packages are bogus and don't address the
           fact that the economy is being hollowed out and the financial
           system is out of control due to lack of any kind of regulation.
           Out of control lending and speculation, twin deficits over a
           trillion a year is setting up the system for collapse, all this
           shit Bush and the Fed are doing is just delaying the inevitable.
           \_ The important thing is delaying shit hitting the fan until
              someone else takes over, then it's their problem.
                \_ Yup -- the shit will hit the fan around 2010/2012 when
                   peak oil arrives so whatever party wins the election
                   will get one term and then get dumped (see Carter)
                   \_ You're totally nuts if you think Carter got kicked out
                      because of oil prices or economic events his
                      administration wasn't mostly responsible for.  Maybe
                      you also heard of this little thing called The Iran
                      Hostage Crisis?  Are you old enough to remember the
                      daily count-up on the news reminding us yet another
                      day had gone by while our people were held by a
                      foreign power while Carter stood around with two thumbs
                      up his ass telling us how America should get used to
                      being a third rate power?  Sheesh.  I could go on but
                      there's no point.
                        \_ I had forgotthen how Reagan solved the Iran hostage
                           crisis in the first 5 minutes of his Presidency ...
                           \_ I'm sure you forgot because it has nothing at all
                              to do with anything I said about Carter.  Nice
                              try.
                   \_ PEEK OIL!!!!11!!
           \_ Yeah, we got to this point for a reason. Cutting the rate
              more and spending more is just digging the hole deeper. Maybe
              it will prop up housing again for a while with more cheap credit.
        \_ Isn't the economy more than twice as large today?
           \_ Not even close. It's like ~9:13. 1:1.7 in real dollars.
              (According to US budget tables.)
              \_ Is Bush's budget stimulus twice as large in real dollars
                 or nominal dollars? In nominal dollars the economy is
                 almost exactly twice as big:
                 http://www.forecasts.org/data/data/GDP.htm
                 \_ For some reason I was comparing against 2000. You're
                    right about nominal dollars vs. 1993. But in real dollars
                    it's still only like 33% bigger. Hooray for inflation.
                    And that also assumes the government CPI shit is accurate.
                    (I'll let the op figure out whatever he was referring to.)

1/23    Buy buy buy GOOG at 530!  When they announce increased market share and
        positive outlook, this stock is gonna bust out to new highs!
        </sarcasm>

1/23    In graphviz (dot), how do you change the width of the connections
        between the nodes?

1/23    Google at $537. Where's the Google800 guy? Bahahahaha:
        http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=GOOG
        \_ hey, it only needs to go down 80% more for you to be in the black,
           short-GOOG-at-100 guy!
           \_ I did a 680->630 short a while ago. I was a bit anxious as
              it went to the mid 700 range but was relieved when it started
              tanking. I should have waited longer. Damn.

1/23    Need retirement savings advice:  if I had the foresight to move from
        market index funds into treasuries at DJIA 14K, and put them back into
        market index funds at DJIA 12K, and not touched the fucker again until
        14K, would that have been a feasible move?
        Yeah, I know, it's like saying, "If I could have bought puts on GOOG
        at 730 and sold them now when GOOG's at 530", but it's a slightly
        different question.
        \_ Trying to time the market is very difficult, but you can always
           try. Maybe you should start out doing with some percentage of
           your retirment fund (like 1/4) and see how you do before risking
           the whole thing.
           \_ Umm, maybe he should not be doing this with retirement fund
              money.
              \_ I don't see why not, unless he is really close to retirement.
                 If he screws up and loses some small part of it (1/2 of the
                 1/4 he played with) then he has to cut back on spending a bit
                 so he can save more, or expect to work a bit longer or
                 whatever. What is sacrosanct about retirement fund money?
                 Since your risk horizon is probably longer, it actually makes
                 since to push it a bit.
                 \_ You have a point, sort of. It's not a bad idea to do all
                    your most tax-inefficient stuff in a retirement account.
                    However, you can only put so much money in these tax
                    advantaged accounts, so I don't think it's the best place
                    to fuck up. Therefore I wouldn't suggest "experimenting"
                    in a retirement account.
        \_ I don't understand your question.
           \_ If all this is in an IRA or 401(k), are there typically fees for
              transferring out of $80K invested in a market index fund and
              into treasuries, and back after 9 months, and if so, what are the
              fees typically?
        \_ Beating the market is a zero sum game.  For every dollar invested in
           the stock market that gets a 1% better than average return, another
           dollar invested in the market underperforms the average return rate
           by 1%.  Just *trying* to beat the market will cost you in
           transaction fees for each attempt at something clever.  When you're
           right, they'll cut into your returns, and when you're wrong, they'll
           increase your losses even further.  On the other hand, *matching*
           the market's average return rate is trivially easy and inexpensive
           in management fees (use an index fund).  If you're convinced that
           you're psychic, try this on paper for a while before you gamble
           with your retirement money.
           \_ about what kind of fee can I expect for a $100K move out of an
              index fund and into a treasury fund (and vice versa) let's say
              at a Fidelity managed IRA?  thanks.
              \_ It depends on the brokerage, account type, the specific funds
                 involved, and sometimes the circumstances of the transaction.
                 If you've got a specific enough transaction in mind, call your
                 broker and ask.
                 \_ yeah, but do you, or does anyone on soda happen to know
                    off-hand the typical fee for the specifics I described?
                    \_ No.  I don't have an IRA with Fidelity, and am
                       unfamiliar with their fee structure.  If I were moving
                       $100k in or out of the exchange traded index funds I've
                       been using in my Schwab brokerage (non-ira) account,
                       it would cost me about $10.  Your mileage *will* vary.
                       \_ thanks!  just wanted a rough number.  this also tells
                          me that not many sodans know this number.
                          \_ We're not your web searching lap dogs, ass wipe.
                          \_ Let me paraphrase what I just said.  "Schwab
                             charges $10 for stock trades in institutional
                             accounts."  Do you still think I've given you
                             information relevant to your situation?
                          \_ Why not call your broker and ask? We don't
                             know what *your* fees are.
           \_ this is true in general, I agree -op
        \_ We are going to see SPX 750, possibly 500.  Get out of the market
           NOW.

1/23    Bushenomics:
        http://www.propeller.com/viewstory/2008/01/21/the-fraud-of-bushenomics

1/23    Ok, this sounds like satire... but it isn't.
        http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/education/7204635.stm
        Uk agency considers 'The Three Little Pigs' to be racist.

1/23    In case someone who's !politburo (or doesn't read their mail) but
        has root@scotch, named is down
         \_ fixed