Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2008:January:18 Friday <Thursday, Saturday>
Berkeley CSUA MOTD
2008/1/18-23 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Troll/Ilyas] UID:48967 Activity:moderate
1/18    Hey tom, you seem to know a lot about startups.  How many companies
        have you founded?  Have you worked at a lot of early phaase
        \_ What gives you that impression, anonymous coward?  -tom
           \_ I don't know about the op, but that's one way to interpret your
              snipe at me on wall yesterday.  op's question aside, I'd be
              curious to hear your opinion regarding Slide in light of the
              smack you've talked in the past, and the round we just did.
              P.S. Are you always this overtly hostile toward people when
              people inquire into your background?
              \_ My comment on wall was in response to your categorization
                 of LBL and Berkeley as "ivory towers."  As if cratering
                 a startup consitutes "the real world."  Here's a hint:
                 People do important things at Berkeley and LBL.  People
                 don't do important things at Slide.  -tom
                 \_ Heh.  Profs and researchers do important things.  I don't
                    think either you or psb do those things.  And, just
                    curious, how is growing the economy and creating jobs
                    unimportant?  Or do people not do important things at
                    Yahoo and Google?  What you fail to understand is that, if
                    not for an environment where people could take risks, the
                    spectacular growth engine that is Silicon Valley would not
                    exist.  Most startups fail.  You have a symbiotic
                    relationship with Berkeley and the academic world it
                    exists in, and I find nothing wrong with that.  What I
                    take issue with is that you presume to berate people
                    regarding areas you manifestly know little or nothing
                    about.  By doing so you discourage people from taking
                    risks, which is reasonable if you're trying to ensure that
                    a network or server stays up, but, in many other domains
                    is lame. -dans
                    \_ Growing the economy and creating jobs is not meaningful
                       in and of itself.  And there is plenty of evidence that
                       we're past the point of diminishing returns on growing
                       the economy.  And boy, if not for an environment where
                       people can take risks, we might not have a vitally
                       important tool like FunWall!  The world might come
                       crashing down!  And of course there are no risks in
                       I'm berating you for being an idiot, not for taking
                       risks.  -tom
                       \_ Creating jobs is not meaningful?  Past the point
                          of diminishing returns on growing the economy?  So
                          now you're an economist?  Your statements boggle the
                          mind.  You berate people because you are unwilling to
                          allow for the possibility that your base of knowledge
                          may have a priori flaws, be incomplete, or flawed in
                          its application.  This is why many people think
                          you're an overbearing asshole. -dans
                                 \_ What do you think "a priori" means?
                          \_ Why do many people think you're an idiot?  -tom
                             \_ Because they never met me in person, and
                                listen to third-hand reports from assholes
                                like you? -dans
                                \_ Occam's Razor disagrees.  -tom
                                   \_ bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha -dans
                                \_ I've met you and I think you are an idiot.
                                     -- ilyas
                                 \- i have not met you (or at least if i have
                                 \- i have not met yoyu, or at least if i have
                                    did make an impression, positive or neg,
                                    didnt make an impression, positive or neg),
                                    but *multiple* people have mailed me to ask
                                    in almost these exact words "do you know
                                    this dans@sloda dood? is he as much of a
                                    pud as he appears to be on first impres-
                                    sion?" --psb
                                    this dans@sloda dood? i was looking at a
                                    job at slide and was wondering if he is as
                                    of a pud/prick as he comes off" --psb
                                    \_ 'dood'.  What word choice. -dans
                                       \- it's an irish word. i am half irish.
                                 \_ I've met you and you seem like a perfectly
                                    reasonable fellow to me. -ausman
                                    \_ PS you're so hot, I want your
                                       ass now!!!               -!ausman
                                       \_ Not funny to sign my name to things
                                          I didn't write. -ausman
                       \_ Over 20 million people use FunWall, and that's
                          just one Slide application.  But, hey, you work in
                          a role that supports researchers and academics so
                          you must know more than all those foolish plebes!
                          At one point, people thought email was frivilous.
                                                                \_ frivolous.
                                \_ Ah yes.  Clearly typos and minor spelling
                                   errors are a good metric for evaluating
                                   intelligence and clue. -dans
                          Not so much anymore.  At one point people thought
                          that the web was a toy.  Not so much anymore.  Philo
                          Farnsworth, the inventor of TV, wanted it to be a
                          tool to educate and inform the masses.  It didn't
                          work out    that way.  I don't presume to claim
                          FunWall will someday be a valuable medium for
                          artistic expression or information distribution, I
                          merely allow for the possibility.  You presume to
                          write it off, and your knowledge of the domain is
                          guaranteed to be worse than mine.  Who's the idiot
                          here? -dans
        \_ dans? is that you?
2008/1/18-23 [Politics/Domestic/California/Arnold, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:48968 Activity:low
        Bush calls for $145b tax relief (cuts) to rescue us from recession!
        Go trickle-down-economy! Reaganomics works!
        \_ Well, the other side is saying we should transfer wealth from rich
           to poor.  And?
        \_ It is good that Bush and Republican Congress have been fiscally
           responsible, so that now we are in a downturn, we can spend some
           of the money we have been saving the last seven years.
           \_ You do realize that's one of the reasons R's are pissed at Bush
              and congress, right? And why some of use went to I? -emarkp
              \_ Yeah, I have heard some grumbling from my evangelical (R)
                 brother. Did you switch to I? Is there any chance you will
                 actually vote for a D?
                 \_ Yes I did, and (for instance) I never voted for the
                    Governator. If a D had a decent plan, I'd be happy to vote
                    for him/her. But it's gotta be more than Hope or Change
           \_ Unfortunately the R version of "saving" is moving money into the
              pockets of the rich.
              \_ If the rich buy more fences to keep out the poor, they'll
                 have to hire the poor to build them! Yay, stimulated economy!
2008/1/18-23 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:48969 Activity:nil
1/18    Some slides of how violence has decreased in Iraq, from General Raymond
        Odierno's briefing yesterday.
        \_ Hey, did you guys ever find those WMD you were looking for there?
        \_ JAMA says over 150k civilian deaths. I guess if you kill enough
           people, the killing with eventually stop, eh?
2008/1/18-23 [Consumer/Camera] UID:48970 Activity:nil
1/18    Okay, this is awesome.  Photo stabilizer made from a washer, string,
        and bolt []
        \_ While this may be better than just plain hand holding, I
           wouldn't call it "image stabilization." Yes, it can be called that
           if you consider a generic definition. But given the context of
           photography, I consider it misleading. At best, I would call it
           reverse monopod. It does have some value in that it takes very
           little room compared to a monopod.
           \_ It's not as good as a monopod.  A monopod only allows camera
              rotation about the vertical axis, while this method allows
              rotation about all three axes.  But then this method is still
              better than hand holding, and IMHO whoever invented this is a
2008/1/18-23 [Uncategorized] UID:48971 Activity:nil
1/18    Bobby Fisher died.  I don't play chess, but I think he's famous.
2008/1/18-23 [Industry/Jobs, Industry/Startup] UID:48972 Activity:high
1/18    Slide raises 50M on 500M valuation:
        Notably, the money came from wall street investors, not the valley.
        Also, we're hiring. -dans
        \_ historically how many people actually get jobs/employees
           via motd? my point is probably gives a better
           hit ratio
        \_ do sysadms get less/more options than developers?
           \_ I'm not sure.  Organizationally, the ops branch of the hierarchy
              is parallel to dev.  One thing that makes it hard to compare is
              that our ops team is much smaller than our dev team. -dans
        \_ half a billion?  The crazy is strong.
        \_ the real question is how much are you worth TODAY?
           \_ It's all just paper money and AMT tax absent a liquidity event.
              The direction this suggests we're headed in is more important
              to me. -dans
        \_ ok, you're hiring. How *competitive* are you wrt to stock
           options now that you got more funding that'll dilute options?
           \_ If you know enough to ask that, then you know that dilution
              would be considered secret and subject to NDA.  I have no
              complaints, and I think it's still a good opportunity or I
              wouldn't be promoting it. -dans
              \_ alright let's say I join what % of ownership do I have,
                 0.00000001% for an engineer 2/3/4? What will that amount
                 to when it's acquired? 1/2 mil? 1 mil? 10 mil?
                 \_ Yes, I understand that.  No company with half a clue would
                    disclose those numbers to you without making you sign an
                    NDA.  If you're interested, send me a resume. -dans
                    \_ "... a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of a pie!"
                       \_ We can do better than the Richter Scales suggest.
                       \_ I would love to own 1/100th of 1% of GOOG.
                          \_ Um, did you just compare GOOG to Slide?  It is
                             to laugh!
                             \_ No, I was replying to the person who said
                                that a fraction of a fraction of a percent
                                is a waste of time owning. Was that you?
                                Can you follow a conversation in English?
                                Heck, even 1/100th of 1% of Slide is worth
                                50k, which isn't chicken scratch.
                                \_ 50k isn't really much at all.  If you are
                                   working at a startup, putting everything
                                   you've got into it, probably getting less
                                   than market value for your work, AND
                                   you win the IPO lottery (even at a good
                                   company with smart people the odds are
                                   against you) 50k is pretty pathetic.  You
                                   should be able to make that kind of money
                                   by working those overtime hours on a
                                   contracting gig over a year or so.
                                   \_ This is good general advice, but several
                                      points don't apply to Slide:
                                      - Our salary and benefits are at or near
                                        market (though we don't do 401k
                                      - At this point, our odds of a successful
                                        outcome are significantly better than
                                        a typical startup.
                                      - I would expect a new hire to get
                                        appreciably more than 1/100th of a
                                        \_ Don't stomp my changes please.
                                           \_ I didn't. -dans
                                   \_ Unless you are one of those spoiled
                                      rich kids that went to school on mommy
                                      and daddies dime, your first $50k is
                                      *huge*. It allowed me to pay off my
                                      credit card debts, my student loans and
                                      was most of my first down payment. Plus,
                                      this company will be worth much more
                                      if and when it goes public. Also, 1/100
                                      of 1% is a very pessimistic number, it
                                      is probably more like that amount per
                                      year. -self made $M
                                      \_ 50K is a lot of money.  50k on a
                                         long (4 year vest?) high risk
                                         bet that requires you to work 60+
                                         hour weeks however is not a lot of
                                         money.  There are easier, faster,
                                         and more reliable ways to make
                                         50K in this industry.  I'm not
                                         saying that's what people at Slide
                                         are going to get, I'm just saying
                                         if that IS all you get if you spend
                                         2-4 years taking a small startup
                                         public then you got screwed.
                                \_ 50k on paper.  It doesn't mean anything
                                   unless it's liquid. -dans
                                   \_ Actually it does, but unless you have
                                      taken a lot of finance I cannot probably
                                      explain it to you. A big change in your
                                      real net worth is important though, even
                                      if it is not liquid.
                                      \_ It might matter to me in practice if,
                                         e.g. I wanted to use my paper wealth
                                         as leverage, but I've seen lots of
                                         otherwise smart people get burned
                                         trying and failing to do just that.
                                         If you've experienced a big change in
                                         your real net worth, how did you use
                                         what you learned in your finance
                                         classes to your advantage? -dans
                                      \_ I could see this if, e.g. you were to
                                         try to leverage your paper wealth,
                                         but I have little interest in doing
                                         so since I know many people who got
                                         burned by trying and failing to do
                                         so.  Have you experienced a big
                                         change in your real net worth?  Did
                                         you use what you learned in your
                                         finance classes to your advantage?
                                         \_ It should change your risk
                                            profile and cause you to shift
                                            investment assets to compensate
                                            for the gain, to stay properly
                                            diversified. In short.
2008/1/18-23 [Computer/SW/Database] UID:48973 Activity:nil
        Oracle buys BEA for $8.5B. What does this mean for BEA employees?
        \_ bend over.
2008/1/18-23 [Computer/SW/Languages/Misc] UID:48974 Activity:low
        Can someone tell me what the "Table 2" -1387 number means for
        January 16, 2008?  It's not a big deal right?
        \_ I don't know, you tell me. What does that even mean?
           \_ All bank cash reserves are borrowed from the Fed as of Jan 16?
           \_ All bank cash reserves were borrowed from the Fed on Jan 16?
              ... since the banks did something else with their cash reserves?
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2008:January:18 Friday <Thursday, Saturday>