Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2007:December:10 Monday <Sunday, Tuesday>
Berkeley CSUA MOTD
2007/12/10-14 [Finance/Banking] UID:48772 Activity:high
12/10   Does anyone on motd actually know someone else using 0% down
        interest only home loans? I don't, and I can't imagine any
        Berkeley grads stupid enough to do so.
        \_ I knew someone who got a 105% loan but she got lucky, didn't get
           fired, and converted a year ago.  She was not a Cal grad.
        \_ Of course I do. It's not really stupid. It's something smart
           people do all the time. The product is really intended for
           developers and/or investors who know what they are doing and
           the risks involved or else disciplined people who have a
           fluctuating income (e.g. small business owners who pay a
           massive chunk of principle at the end of each quarter/year when
           they had  good business and have the extra cash). Most people never
           pay their mortgage off anyway (until they sell) and principle is
           such a small part of the payment that it can make sense to not
           commit to it. I would have done it if I could have gotten a better
           rate that way, but usually you won't. You just pay principle when
           you want to, but you're not committed to it. In my world,
           that's smart.
           \_ principal
              \_ Ironically, I spelled it "principal" and then checked the
                 web which had it "principle". The web site I looked at
                 was retarded and you are correct.
        \_ I know someone who got their townhouse in DC that way. She is a
           Cal undergrad and Yale grad school grad. I talked her into refi'ing
           into a 30 year fixed rate about 18 months ago. She was planning on
           doing it anyway, when her rate reset this year, but I think she
           is glad she listened to me and did it early.
           \_ Variable rate and interest only are two different things
              completely. She could've refinanced into a fixed rate
              interest only if she wanted.
              \_ It was actually both a variable rate and an interest only
                 loan (with a higher rate variable 2nd, making it a no
                 money down loan as well). Were people actually signing up
                 for fixed rate, interest only loans? What was the term, i.e.
                 how long was the loan for? Life?
                 \_ Works just like variable rate except the interest rate
                    doesn't fluctuate.
                    \_ Not how I think of it. Those are 5 or 7 year fixed
                       rate loans only, they vary after that, so they are
                       really ARMs.
                       \_ Um, no. Some are fixed  for 5 or 7 years and some are
                          fixed for the life of the loan. Look at the Smart30
                          offering and compare to SmartChoice:
                          Both are interest-only.
                          \_ Those are still only fixed for 10 years. An
                             interest-only loan, by definition, would never
                             get paid off, so it is kind of silly to claim
                             that the loan rate is fixed for the "life of
                             the loan." The Smart30 converts to a standard
                             fixed rate fully amortizing loan after 10 years.
                             \_ Are you an idiot? I hate to call names,
                                but read the damn link! They are fixed for
                                the life of the loan! Read the column that
                                says "fixed-rate period". What does it
                                say? Term of loan! Term of loan is not 10
                                years. Jeebus! How it's amortized has
                                nothing to do with the rate being fixed or
                                not. The loan may *never* be paid off and
                                it could still be at a fixed rate! That
                                this loan has a 10 year interest-only
                                period has nothing to do with whether the
                                rate is fixed or not.
                                \_ Yes, I read the link. You don't understand
                                   what you are talking about. No one offers
                                   a loan of infinite duration, which is what
                                   a fixed-rate, non-amortizing loan would be.
                                   The Smart30 is an interest only loan for
                                   10 years, then a standard 20 year fixed
                                   rate fully amortizing loan after that. They
                                   both have the same interest rate, yes.
                                   \_ No one is talking about amortization
                                      here but you! You said "Those are 5
                                      or 7 year fixed rate loans only, they
                                      vary after that" which is WRONG.
                                      Then you said "Those are still only
                                      fixed for 10 years" which is also
                                      WRONG!  When I showed you proof you
                                      started talking about amortization. WTF?!
                                      I have completed all the coursework
                                      to be a mortgage broker, so I
                                      definitely know what I am talking
                                      about and you are a buffoon!
                                      Further, your reading comprehension
                                      is terrible. I never said any of
                                      those loans were infinite duration,
                                      but certainly such loans are possible -
                                      and with a fixed rate, too! I'll
                                      make you one if you want it!
                                      \_ Interest-only means the same things
                                      \_ Interest-only means the same thing
                                         as non-amortizing. You are really
                                         clueless if you don't realize that.
                                         Show me a fixed-rate, interest only
                                         loan of inifinite duration, I would
                                         loan of infinite duration, I would
                                         be amused to know of it. As far as
                                         I know there have only been a few
                                         cases of this kind of note in history.
                                         Read about the losrenten and the
                                         consols. You are talking about setting
                                         up a perpetual annuity.
                                         \_ You are going off on a tangent
                                            now. Please to be acknowledging
                                            that your two above assertions
                                            about fixed-rate loans were
                                            wrong and then we can talk about
                                            amortization (or not).
                                            \_ My initial question was "what
                                               is the term for the fixed-rate,
                                               interest only loan?" which you
                                               have never really answered
                                               except with nonesense like
                                               "the entire term of the loan
                                                you idiot!" Yes, I glanced at
                                               some of the links and thought
                                               that the longest interest only
                                               loan was 7 years, when it was
                                               actually 10, but you still have
                                               not even come close to answering
                                               my initial question. What you
                                               call a "tangent" is actually
                                               my initial question. Work on
                                               your own comprehension skills.
                                               And yes, we use the word "vary"
                                               to mean different things. You
                                               use it to mean the interest
                                               rate varies, while I use it to
                                               mean the payment varies. I think
                                               that is the root of our
                                               \_ I think it was clear what
                                                  you were talking about
                                                  when you used the term
                                                  ARM and you were incorrect.
                                            \_ My original question was:
                                               "Were people actually signing up
                                                for fixed rate, interest only
                                                loans? What was the term...?"
                                                So no, this is not a "tangent"
                                                as you call it, it is the
                                                original question. Your response
                                                "the life of the loan" makes
                                                no sense, unless you are
                                                claiming a perpetual annuity.
                                                It is actually kind of amusing
                                                that you claim I have reading
                                                comprehension problems,
                                                considering I got a 750 on the
                                                verbal part of the GRE. Perhaps
                                                the communication problem is
                                                not really on my end.
                                                original question.
                                                \_ What does "ARM" (a term
                                                   you used and which has
                                                   a clear meaning) mean on
                                                   your planet? You said
                                                   "Those are 5 or 7 year
                                                   fixed rate loans only, they
                                                   vary after that, so they are
                                                   really ARMs" which is
                                                   WRONG and "Those are still
                                                   only fixed for 10 years"
                                                   which is WRONG. You
                                                   have yet to demonstrate
                                                   any real understanding
                                                   of the subject or
                                                   acknowledge your
                                                   misunderstanding, so
                                                   it's pretty clear you
                                                   are the idiot here. You
                                                   are a textbook case for
                                                   why standardized
                                                   testing is USELESS.
                                                   BTW, the answer to your
                                                   question about the
                                                   length of the loan is
                                                   in the URL I provided.
                                                   \_ You don't know what the
                                                      word "vary" means in the
                                                      English language. You
                                                      think it only means to
                                                      vary the interest rate,
                                                      but it can also mean to
                                                      vary the payment amount.
                                                      Perhaps your mortgage
                                                      training taught you this
                                                      jargon, but that is not
                                                      how it is used by regular
                                                      English speakers.
                                                      \_ No one talks about
                                                         "variable payments"
                                                         w.r.t mortgages
                                                         and you are the
                                                         one who used the
                                                         term "ARM" which
                                                         means Adjustable
                                                         Rate. You are out of
                                                         your depth here.
                                                         Admit that you
                                                         didn't know what
                                                         you were talking
                                                         about, thank me
                                                         for educating you,
                                                         and move on.
                                                         \_ Go to your own
                                                "At Quicken Loans, we offer
                                                a variety of interest-only
                                                loan options, including [...]
                                                adjustable-rate mortages..."
                                                Then you claim that I was
                                                "WRONG" for calling them
                                                ARMs. Is an adjustable-rate
                                                mortgage an ARM?
                                                \_ You're a fucknut. Of
                                                   course an adjustable rate
                                                   mortgage is an ARM. The
                                                   point here is that you
                                                   are talking about RATE
                                                   not PAYMENT when *YOU*
                                                   used the term ARM. You are so
                                                   fucking inconsistent
                                                   and a revisionist to boot.
                                                   \_ I am merely quoting your
                                                      own comments directly
                                                      from earlier in the thread
                                                      I never called the
                                                      Smart30 an ARM, you just
                                                      made the wild assumption
                                                      that I did. All I said
                                                      is that it wasn't fixed
                                                      and it clearly is not,
                                                      since the payment varies
                                                      after 10 years. You made
                                                      the assumption that I was
                                                      referring to the interest
                                                      rate, but I was not. You
                                                      are a textbook example of
                                                      why a little knowledge
                                                      is a dangerous thing.
                                                      Furthermore you said:
                                                   "Those are 5 or 7 year
                                                   fixed rate loans only, they
                                                   vary after that, so they are
                                                   really ARMs" which is
                                                   WRONG". What do you call the
                                                   SmartChoice loan, from your\
                                                   own URL? It is a 3,5, or 7
                                                   year Interest-Only ARM, just
                                                   like I said. Go ahead and
                                                   admit you were wrong here.
                                                   A little confession is good
                                                   for the soul.
                                                   \_ I'm done with you. You
                                                      are all over the map
                                                      in trying to defend
                                                      your losing position,
                                                      you are stubborn, and
                                                      you are a waste of my
                                                      time. Thank me for
                                                      educating you, which
                                                      I did, and give it up.
2007/12/10-14 [Uncategorized] UID:48773 Activity:nil
12/10   You go Al Gore!
        \_ Re-elect Al Gore
2007/12/10-14 [Academia/Berkeley] UID:48774 Activity:nil
12/10   UC Berkeley to teach engineers more people skills:
        \_ Hmm, I thought it was about learning how to deal with QAs and PMs.
           \_ wut about the hawt HR chix?
              \_ That's Chapter 14 of the textbook: Introductory Bedroom Skills
                 \_ Chapter 15: Tipping.
2007/12/10-13 [Uncategorized] UID:48775 Activity:nil
12/10   Voyager 2 has reached the termination shock boundary: (
2007/12/10-14 [Reference/BayArea, Industry/Jobs] UID:48776 Activity:kinda low
12/10   For people in the LA area, what city has the most/best tech
        startup companies? Pasadena? Santa Monica? Burbank?
        \_ Yes. OC, too.
        \_ MySpace is in Beverly Hills.  Though they're also opening a San
           Francisco office RSN. -dans
           \_ Hello there, the 'myspace san francisco office' is ONLY
              sales dudes.  No tech guys.  I mean it.  None.  Unless
              you are a sales dude!  I really doubt sales dudes post to
              the motd.
              \_ You probably have better information than I do.  My,
                 entirely pulled out of my ass, speculation is that they're
                 using the SF office to house the MySpace platform team.
                 Also, if they're just sales, why are they hiring engineers
                 from LookSmart? -dans
                 \_ Because they're taking over the looksmart space and it
                    came with the engineers?
2007/12/10-14 [Reference/Religion] UID:48777 Activity:kinda low
12/10   Are there equivalence to the Catholic Pope for Mormons, Muslims,
        Jewish, etc?
        \_ no.
        \_ Definitely not for Judaism though many Jewish sects/degrees of
           orthodoxy have one or more groups of Rabbis who are seen as sort of
           community elders.  They are closer in some respect to Cardinals in
           the Catholic faith, but the attitude/process seems different.  In
           Judaism there is a focus on argument in general, and the view that
                                        \_ s/argument/debate/g;
                                           \_ Sure.  Though I'd argue you're
                                              splitting hairs. -dans
                                              \_ I think this says a lot about
                                              \_ s/argue/debate/g;
                                                 \_ Why do you keep using that
                                                    word?  I do not think it
                                                    means what you think it
                                                    means. -dans
                                                    \_ You killed my father!
                                                       Prepare to die!
                                                       \_ Why am I always the
                                                          last one to know?
           wisdom comes from incorporating many different, sometimes
           contradictory viewpoints.  I know Mormonism has a council of
           elders, but couldn't tell you much more than that.  jrleek could
           likely explain it better. -dans
           \_ great info, thanks. Are you Jewish?
              \_ Ethnically yes.  I'm somewhat ambivalent toward the organized
                 aspects of the religion at present. -dans
                 aspects of the religion at present. I enjoy touching men.-dans
                 \_ If you're going to edit my posts, please note that I
                    usually put two spaces after the period in the text, and
                    at least one after the period when I sign my name.  Also,
                    keep in mind that regardless of the gender of who it is
                    that I'm fucking at any given moment, she or he is
                    likely way out of the league of anyone that would ever
                    willingly go near your trolling ass. -dans
                    \_ Better yet, just don't edit people's posts,
                       even if they're dans.  -niloc
        \_ Alan Greenspan is the Pope of the Jews.      -troller
        \- cathlolic:orthodoxy::jew,muslim:orthopraxy --psb
2007/12/10-14 [Recreation/Computer/Games] UID:48778 Activity:moderate
12/10   Fun games to play if you're bored:
        Make sure to tell us what level you get to.
        \_ Level 10... I don't know shit about Africa.
           I would replay it but I don't want to go through the first 9
           levels again.
        \- i think to make the quiz "better" they should 1. make the map
           bigger 2. maybe get rid of country shadings 3. not tell you
           what country things are in. e.g. if they say "city of york"
           obviously the only famous one is york->yorkshire. i suppose there
           are some more fundamental problem as well, but those can be fixed
           via the scoring system [like you error is going to be a lot higher
           via the scoring system [like your error is going to be a lot higher
           on a pacific island than something in england, or central
        \_ Level 11. Twice. -ausman
        \- I think to make the map quiz "better" they need to make the
           map larger, and maybe get rid of country shadings.
           \_ you know why people ignore whatever shit you have to say?
              it's all talk. "\- i think it's better if it is that way
              or this way." Well, wake up. No one cares what you have
              to say. you fix it, or you don't ... the problem persists.
              opinions and criticisms are dime a dozen. do something
              about it or shut the fuck up.
              \- yes, "it's all talk". what were you under the impression
                 the motd was?
        \_ Level 11, both times I played. -ausman
        \_ Level 11: 440,086 points. Bloody South Pacific Islands. --erikred
        \_ L11 also, around 480k. hard to play with track pad ...
           I accidentally put Vancouver in SF and Jerusalem in the South
           Atlantic. The gave me a lot of Mexican resorts.
           \_ Uhm, wait, Vancouver isn't in SF?  Damn....
        \_ game flash countries country iq
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2007:December:10 Monday <Sunday, Tuesday>