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| 2007/11/26-29 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Troll] UID:48689 Activity:high |
11/25 HYPOTHETICAL QUESTION: Pretend I live in Berkeley and have
several roommates. One roommate, we'll call her Danielle,
thinks another roommate, we'll call him Umberto, is smoking
pot in his room. She calls the Berkeley PD and asks for advice.
The Berkeley PD says they'll stop by on Monday and search
Umberto's room. Danielle says, well gosh golly, I thought
pot law enforcement was a low priority in Berkeley! The
Berkeley PD say no ma'am, we still enforce The Law, I am shocked
you would think such a thing, we'll be over in the morning to
search this miscreant Umberto's room. Their long suffering
other roommate, "George", I mean me, doesn't want the po-po
anywhere near the house, because he remembers when a certain
Sodan got raided by the Berkeley PD and they snatched all of
his computers as evidence. "George" also thinks the landlords would
not appreciate the cops running around their house. So when the
cops show up and Danielle says "Why come on in good sirs,
Umberto resides upstairs!" and I I mean "George" says
COME BACK WITH A WARRANT, who do the police obey? thanks.
\_ Who's Britney and what happened to Danielle? Are you on something?
\_ Danielle, or any legal resident who invites them in.
\_ what if Umberto locks his bedroom door? Do the "police"
"break the door in"?
\_ IANAL, and my friend is not a cop (anymore), but it is my
understanding that the officers would have PC to search the
"common areas" but not a room with a shut door, nor your
PC even if in plain view if the alleged crime was smoking
pot. Close the door to your room, just in case.
\_ Hello. you may wish to read Georgia v. Randolph, 126 S.Ct.
1515 (2006):
http://www.supremecourtus.gov/opinions/05pdf/04-1067.pdf
Under Randolph, consent to a warrantless search given by one
occupant is invalid if another physically present occupant
refuses to give consent.
So, if D says "come in" and G says "get a warrant," the BPD
probably could not conduct a constitutionally valid search
w/o obtaining a warrant because G, an occupant, was physically
present and refused to give consent. [if you are really faced
w/ this situation, do not rely on the above, please consult
an actual attorney]
\_ !!! Well-spotted! G, this is yet another great reason to
consult a lawyer if this becomes an issue.
\_ That's interesting and new. I know prior to that, if one
occupant gave consent, that was all that was required.
\_ This is not correct. Prior to Randolph, only some
states held consent of one occupant was sufficient.
\_ I live in CA. The OP lives in CA. Other states can
have whatever barbaric laws they like.
\_ Seems like Umberto could just remove the pot!
\_ He did. I don't think I can call the "berkeley PD" and say
oh so sorry, the pot is gone, no need for you to raid my
home, ok tnx.
\_ You said "ok tnx" but you are not psb.
\_ Is "Danielle" hot?
\_ shut up, motd boob guy
\_ So she has nice boobs?
\_ who are you? i'm gonna get you.
\_ Why? Is she your gf or something?
\_ oh hey when the "berkeley PD" is here, can i ask them to search
"Danielle"'s room? - "George"
\_ Berkeley police tend to be pretty good about civil liberties,
especially if you are a student. Close your door, be around when
the police show up, and kick Danielle out as soon as possible.
\_ I dunno, I'd kick the jerk out who's stinking up the house with
with pot smoke.
\_ And lose a connection? Do you know what pot is selling for
these days? |
| 2007/11/26-30 [Computer/Companies/Google] UID:48690 Activity:kinda low |
11/26 GOOG closes at exactly 666 points.
http://money.cnn.com/quote/quote.html?symb=GOOG
\_ The stock of the beast?
\_ The Metal Apocalypse has begun!
\_ I thought the motd was full of atheists and computer scientists not
bible codists and numerologists.
\_ You missed the Kabbalists and Mormons.
\_ We have Kabbalists here? That's kinda cool.
\_ Where's Short GOOG at 666 Guy?
\_ The stars are aligned and oil price is peaking. ALL the
signs are here. The oil-based economy is coming to a
halt and GLOBAL RECESSION IS COMING. -recession swami
\_ Let's assume oil peaked 2 years ago. There's still a shit load
of oil left in the ground. A lot of the current over-pricing is
just gouging and lack of refinery capacity. To say the global
recession is coming is true but only because of business cycles,
not because of anything your http://swami.net has 'revealed' to you.
Motd nutters, I love you guys but really, the world is not ending
on the Mayan calendar date.
\_ Nostradamus, Mayans, and Edgard predicted the end of the
world at year 2012
\_ Nostradamus predicts 3797.
\_ Actually the Mayans only said it was the end of that age
and the start of the next. Like December 31st is not
the end of time on our calendar, just $year++.
\_ I DID NOT KNOW THAT from watching History Channel
special END OF DAYS. damn liberal media. oh hey
still haven't gotten laid.
\_ i thought it was going to be a consumer-led recession with
foreclosure, no-home-equity effects, ARM adjustment, capital
ratios, and deleveraging dominating |
| 2007/11/26-30 [Politics/Domestic/911, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:48691 Activity:high |
11/26 http://csua.org/u/k2n (Washington Times) Islamic terrorists target Army base -- in Arizona "Fort officials changed security measures after sources warned that possibly 60 Afghan and Iraqi terrorists were to be smuggled into the U.S. through underground tunnels with high-powered weapons to attack the Arizona Army base, according to multiple confidential law enforcement documents obtained by The Washington Times." \_ It's also possible an army of elephant commandos has been training in the amazon for generations to wipe humanity off the face of the earth and get back at us for those damn pianos. (Hint, the Washington Times is one step removed from The Star but with More Moonie.) \_ I've been reading Sara Carter's stuff since before she was with the times. She's a good reporter. And while I might accuse a major paper of spin (I'm looking at you NYTimes), I wouldn't reject it as a basic record of fact. I'm sorry you reject news sources that don't fit your agenda. -op \_ You just accused the New York Times of spin. It's had some pretty blatant failures of editorial control, e.g. Jason Blair, Judith Miller, and it is not without bias, but to claim that it spins stories is stretching it a bit, don't you think? -dans \_ No. Not at all. PP was kind to the NYT. --someone else \_ How so? Care to cite an example of egregious spin in a news story on the part of the NYT? -dans \_ Pick up a copy. They used to have the news pages read reasonably straight and kept the editorials to the op/ed page. No more and not for many years. IMO it changed sometime in the mid 90s. Now the NYT is unreadable. I used to read it cover to cover every day. \_ If it's so bad, it should be easy to provide one example. Please cite one. -dans \_ It is, and if it was anyone else asking, I'd provide examples. \_ The Plaintiff rests. -dans \_ Are you the same guy asking for proof that the Washington Times is biased? \_ No. All newspapers are biased. I don't need proof of that. \_ Everything is biased. An interesting question to ponder is what would lack of bias even look like. -- ilyas \_ Do you read Front Page Mag and NewsMax and consider them "sources of fact" as well? \_ I get all my truth from Kos and DU. \_ UPI picked it up--do you distrust them too? \_ UPI and Washington Times have the same owner, dumbfuck. \_ Didn't know that, pottymouth. \_ Then we can safely ignore your opinion on media sources. \_ Do you have any evidence at all that the owner has had a negative influence on the truthfulness of the stories they publish? Or you just hate the owner and assume? \_ "Fifteen years ago, when the world was adrift on the stormy waves of the Cold War, I established The Washington Times to fulfill God's desperate desire to save this world." --Rev Sun Yung Moon \_ That's nice. Do you have any evidence that the owner has had a negative influence at all or you just hate the owner? \_ That quote is evidence. Do you have any counterevidence. Don't be disingenuous, it defeats the purpose of discussion. Hint: the goal is not to win the argument, the goal is to maybe learn something. -dans, !pp \_ A quote is not evidence that the owner has had any effect. Hint: the goal is not to win the argument, the goal is to maybe learn something. I'm still waiting for any evidence, not innuendo, that their news is negatively influenced by their owner no matter how nutty he may be. \_ Evidence: They're reporting complete nonsense about immigrant terrorists. And they report complete nonsense all the time. And their owner says so. Why would the Moonies be dumping billions of dollars into this paper if not to push their own agenda? The prima facie evidence is that it's a paper run by nutjobs with an agenda. -tom \_ Several papers have been busted in recent years publishing flat out incorrect stories or even lies. This is the only one moonie owned. Correlation != causation and all that. \_ I'm not sure how you parse intent as innuendo. Intent is not rock-solid, slam-dunk evidence, but it is, nonetheless, evidence. Seriously, quit being a douche. -dans \_ Thank you for bringing this discussion to a new low. It is responses like this that turn me off from bothering to try to give you researched respones to your queries such as the NYT one above because you're just not mature enough to have this sort of discussion. You called me a douche, because you got frustrated that I wouldn't just back down because you're pushy and unwilling to support your claims in any real way. This isn't HS or a freshman dorm chat. "Douche", indeed. \_ Blah blah blah, wah, wah. Let me translate pp's post for the audience at home: "I can't argue my point on merit so I'll politely dodge the issue, refuse to provide evidence for my points, and say my opponent's evidence 'doesn't count', all while pretending to participate in the discussion in good faith. But if the opposition bluntly calls me on my shit, and points out that I am being a disingenuous fuckhead, then the opposition is being juvenile." -dans \_ "The Washington Times will become the instrument in spreading the truth about God to the world." --ibid \_ As above, same question. \_ Other than that they have about 50 people total staff, no original reporting, and mainly put out short summaries of stories from other "sources" that are nearly always, dunh da dunh, the Washington Times? Nope. You suck at this game. \_ No original reporting? Sara Carter has done some of the best investigative reporting I've seen. \_ I was clearly speaking specifically about UPI. You really really suck at this game. \_ Clear to who? It wasn't clear to me. -!pp \_ Then you're an idiot too, but I doubt you're !pp. \_ Oh, you're crazy, that explains a lot. \_ Crystal clear to me. Do you read? Can you read? Do you have thumbs? SHOW ME YOUR THUMBS!!! -dans \_ Can you give me some specific examples? Now I am curious, what a motd-rightwinger thinks is an example of good reporting. -!pp I am curious to see what a motd-rightwinger thinks is an example of good reporting. -!pp \_ Let's just say that if the Washington Times is the originating source they have a pretty high burden of proof. That article had absolutly nothing to back itself up. I'll wait till I see something real before giving it any cred whatsoever. \_ What media sources do you give 'cred' to when they publish poorly sourced stories? \_ The Economist, the IHT, maybe WashPo, WSJ news pages before it became a Murdoch tool. -!pp \_ The Economist, the IHT, maybe WashPo, WSJ news pages before it became a Murdoch tool. -!pp before it became a Murdoch tool. How about you? -!pp \_ You give 'cred' to the WaPo? Wow.... \_ What do you give 'cred' to? WashPo is the largest source of unsourced articles, because of the way Washington DC works. Often you cannot get good inside the beltway news any other way. WashPo is also politically moderate, more or less. I am not saying it is perfect, but it is a much better than average newspaper. Not in the same league as the others I listed though. \_ I don't give free 'cred' to any media source. If you're not sourced you're no better than Drudge. I read Drudge. I find him amusing. He sometimes even gets a story right. That doesn't mean he has any credibility. \_ All of those sources have a better track \_ All of those papers have a better track record then Drudge. \_ I'm not a regular WSJ reader, but I generally respect the news pages. I'm not ready to write it off just because Murdoch purchased it, but am definitely waiting to see what happens. My list also includes the New York Times, The Economist, and the Christian Science Monitor. -dans \- if you are going to bother to infiltrate the US, isnt it kind of odd to go after a "hard target" like an AZ army base. \_ Not if it has intel info you want. Sounds like a better target than Walmart, dont you think? And better PR value, too. \_ http://www.azstarnet.com/sn/hourlyupdate/213456.php "FBI: Widely reported terrorist threat to Fort Huachuca unfounded" As noted, the Washington Times has zero credibility. -tom \_ Oh, so you trust the FBI more than the Times? Okay then. \_ Yeah, the FBI has real incentive to downplay terrorist threats, because, uh, well, no they don't. -tom |
| 2007/11/26-29 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:48692 Activity:nil |
11/25 Is Waterboarding torture?
http://www.csua.org/u/k2i (The Week)
\_ Apparently, Tasers are. At that point, anything is torture.
\_ The USSC said tasers are torture? When did they say that?
\_ No, SCOTUS didn't say that. Google the news for tasers and
torture.
\_ Tasers can be torture. When police use tasers one a restrained
subject, as punishment, they are using tasers as torture
devices.
\_ In this same vein, so are car batteries, hammers,
whatever....
\_ Umm, those are regularly used as torture devices.
Or would you be happy if police regularly smashed
people in the hand with a hammer for not doing what
they say?
\_ So when a prisoner is escorted to court with a taser belt, and
it's used to zap him if he gets out of line, you'd say it's a
torture device?
\_ If it is used to zap him if he attacks someone, probably
not. If it is used to make someone do something that
could be done without the use of pain, yes, it is
torture. And that's what tasers have become to some
law enforcement, ways of getting people to kowtow
instantly. That's torture.
\_ I thought torture was inflicting pain to get
information, not to get them to comply. What about
beating someone with batons if they won't fall in line?
\_ That's pretty obvious torture. It's part of ruling
by fear. And it is what our police departments are
rapidly becoming, forces of fear.
\_ It is not torture the way the Geneva Convention
defines torture. There has to be a lot more to
it than that, like permanent damage.
\_ This is not a testable distinction if you
include psychological damage. -- ilyas |
| 2007/11/26-30 [Politics/Domestic/Gay] UID:48693 Activity:low |
11/26 What is the real reason Trent Lott resigned? Is he actually gay?
http://www.csua.org/u/k2u (rumor site)
\_ I'm really sorry that the shit didn't hit the fan if he
actually quit because he's gay. I want the conservatives
demoralized as they find each of their champions to be shown
to be lying hypocrites.
\_ Because he was in office for 34 years which is about 28 years
too many for any Senator, IMO?
\_ You mean about 34 year too long?
\_ No. I mean 28. I'm not an anarchist. I think one or two
terms is enough for any politician. I know that's a naive
concept these days but there it is. |
| 2007/11/26-30 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:48694 Activity:nil |
11/26 Dang, that bride is fugly (Iraq: terror suspects caught in wedding)
http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/11/26/iraq.bride/index.html
\_ I think she's a man. |