Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2007:October:23 Tuesday <Monday, Wednesday>
Berkeley CSUA MOTD
2007/10/23-25 [Reference/RealEstate] UID:48417 Activity:moderate
10/22   Confused about my property tax bill. It says:
        Payment due: 11/01/07
        If not received or postmarked by 12/10/07, extra fee added.
        So, it's due on 11/01/07, but I really have till 12/10/07.
        What exactly is this saying?
        \ This sounds like my property tax bill for the past 5 yrs. I've
          always sent it in (via mail) by around 12/5/07 so it gets to the
          county by 12/10. Never got harassed. The same goes for your 2nd
          installment which is due by 04/10 (the following year), even though
          it says '03/01'.
        \_ Which county?  My Alameda County statement says the same thing.
           \_ I'm in S Cal and mine says pretty much the same thing. I
              believe ambiguous and confusing government forms has been
              pretty standardized.
        \_ It is saying "We prefer getting your money by 11/01/07 so that
           we can earn interest rate for a month. We'll be happy about it
           and Uncle Sam will be your friend. We'll accept your money by
           12/10/07 and if you don't pay up by then we'll get pissed off
           and charge you extra fees."
           Is this an accurate translation?
        \_ Yeah, they're all like that.  It's like there's an unspoken
           rule that prevents government offices from making sense.
           But seriously, everyone asks the same question.  The best I
           could come up with was: 1) As long as they have your money
           by "delinquent after" date, you're cool.  2) If the payment
           is not made by the "delinquent after" date, then the
           penalties/fees are calculated from the "due date."
        \_ How about you just pay your bill?
        \_ It means that it is due on 11/01/07. This is true of a car or
           a mortgage, too. The date you are assessed a late fee is not the
           "due date". My car payment is due the 1st. I usually pay around
           the 5th-7th. The late fee is assessed on the 11th or something.
           I never pay any late fees, but I am still late and my creditor
           considers me late. This is not limited to the government.
           BTW, the time between the due date and when a late fee is
           assessed is the "grace period". Grace periods are extremely
           common. The property tax one seems weird because it is so long
           and the late fee is so high.
           \_ Does anyone actually pay on time? One month of interest rate
              is not insignificant.
              \_ Neither is the fine for paying late if you miss.
              \_ Of course people pay on time, especially people who hire
                 others to handle their bills and who have fat bank
                 accounts. If you have $5M in the bank then you don't
                 sweat that one month interest on your $3K property tax
                 payment. At 5% it's like $12.
2007/10/23-26 [Recreation/Dating] UID:48418 Activity:high
10/22   Question:  I'm over 30.  I was out with my girlfriend over the weekend
        and I met this hot 22 year old.  I tried really hard to not flirt
        with her, in deference to the fact my girlfriend was standing right
        there.  She and her hot 21 year old roommate were shamelessly flirting
        with me.  They gave their email addresses to my girlfriend.   When
        my girlfriend was asleep not having sex with me, I carefully copied
        the email addresses of the hot chicks out of her purse onto a piece
        of paper.  I had to get up a lot earlier than her but when I had
        driven 10 minutes away, I remembered I left the piece of paper!  So I
        drove back to her place, carefully sneaked in, thanked G-d she was
        still asleep, and retrieved the piece of paper.  I emailed the
        shorter of the hot chicks.  We bantered back and forth and she's
        invited me to a home cooked meal put on by her and her roommate.
        I've read the email over and over and she has not mentioned my
        girlfriend at all.  What should I do?  TAKE THAT, NOT GETTING
        LAID GUY #3!  - the original not getting laid guy
        \_ This is not Penthouse Forum
           \_ "I never thought it would happen to me..."
              \_ "...I was on the motd and this girl sees me from across the
                  internet and..."
        \_ Penthouse Forum has a lot of sex going on doesn't it?  I AM THE
           EXACT OPPOSITE.  Also the above is 100 percent true.
           \_ I am not typing all my reply to this again. You are on your
              own buddy.
        \_ Seriously dude, if you're not happy with your gf, either talk to
           her about it and try to fix things or break up with her.  Don't
           cheat on her, that's lame.  Shit like this happens to me all the
           time, which is why I make a point of dating people who are okay
           with it. -dans
           \_ My advice exactly. Except for the "okay with it" part.
              \_ I disgree.  He doesn't have a girlfriend.  He's just
                 'dating' whoever with no strings.  There's nothing wrong
                 with the free love thing as long as everyone is aware they're
                 in a sex-only non-relationship.  In this case, the OP does
                 have a relationship (even if sexless).  He should split and
                 try out the 22 year old.
                 \_ Yeah, I don't mean to say that dans is wrong for being
                    a swinger, just that I would not recommend that to
                    anyone. Polyamory is a lot of work, frowned on by
                    society and usually doesn't seem to work out that
                    well, in my observation and experience. But if you
                    want to go for it, go for it!
                    \_ From his description it sounds more like he's just
                       dating than having a relationship.  Hey dan,
                       inquiring minds want to know: you just sleeping
                       with them or are you doing the real 19th century
                       Mormon thing?
                       \_ polyamory != polygamy
                          \_ so what?
                             \_ If you have to ask, you don't know. -dans
                                \_ I wasn't asking.  I was saying, "so what?"
                                   \_ No, you were making a question, that's
                                      what that '?' mark does.  Statements end
                                      with a period.  Of course, since you
                                      don't seem to grok the difference
                                      between the two, it's no surprise you
                                      don't care that two words mean something
                                      different despite a shared prefix. -dans
                    \_ Yeah, I am not a swinger, polygamist, nor polyamorist.
                       I have been in poly relationships in the past, though I
                       am not presently.  But, IMO, part of what makes it
                       possible for me to date many people is that I am
                       completely open and upfront with everyone I date.
                       Also, I kind of find most people's need to label
                       relationships to be stupid and counterproductive.  I
                       just say, "It's complicated." and leave it at that,
                       unless someone wants to hear all the gory details.  And
                       no, I'm not airing the gory details for the motd. -dans
                       \_ If you having sex with more than one person you
                          are one of those things, in spite of your desire
                          to avoid admitting it by putting a stupid label
                          on it. People categorize things for a reason and
                          the reason is not stupid.
                          \_ You're wrong.  While the reason for categorizing
                             everything under the sun may not be stupid, when
                             it comes to relationships, the consequences of
                             misapplied labels, e.g. rampant miscommunication,
                             botched assumptions, and generally fubarred
                             relationships, are pretty serious.  Seriously,
                             I've never met any two people who can agree
                             completely on what the term 'relationship' means,
                             and I've seen lots of relationships fail because
                             the people involved assumed they each knew what
                             the other meant. -dans
                             \_ Thus we use specific labels like "going
                                steady", "open relationship, "just dating",
                                "friends with benefits", etc to describe
                                the relationship clearly without getting
                                lawyers involved.
                                \_ Yes, and those labels suck, and seem to
                                   cause lots of unnecessary pain.  This is
                                   why I avoid them because it forces
                                   actually, you know, discussing the gory
                                   details with people I'm involved with.
                                   \_ Oddly enough, my wife and I agree on
                                      what "marriage" means and have not had
                                      a problem with it.
                                      \_ So you've never argued, disagreed, or
                                         had a misunderstanding about the
                                         nature of your relationship ever?
                                         Color me skeptical.  You wouldn't
                                         perchance be in an arranged marriage?
                                         It's the one situation I know of that
                                         doesn't seem to suffer from this
                                         problem. -dans
                                         \_ We certainly have not had any
                                            disagreements about the monogamist
                                            aspect of it. We talked about it
                                            once, agreed, and that was it.
                                            It is kind of foolish for you to
                                            believe that you are re-inventing
                                            human sexual relationships, from
                                            scratch, in a better way than
                                            any of the people before you could.
                                            Though I tip my hat at you for
                                            \_ Way to jump to conclusions.  I
                                               made no such claim.  Nor was I
                                               suggesting there was anything
                                               wrong with monogamy.  Nor was I
                                               suggesting that I am somehow
                                               blazing some glorious new trail
                                               that's never been done before.
                                               All I'm saying, the only thing
                                               I'm saying is that slapping a
                                               label on something is not the
                                               same thing as actually talking
                                               through it with another person
                                               and coming to an agreement.
                                               That's it.  The semantics of
                                               the language used in
                                               relationship are far more
                                               flexible than the language(s) of
                                               science or mathematics.  This
                                               can and often does lead to
                                               needless confusion and
                                               misunderstanding.  I really
                                               don't think that's a big
                                               sweeping thing to say, and it
                                               has nothing to do with whether
                                               you choose to fuck people in
                                               serial or parallel. -dans
                                               \_ In the history of human
                                                  sexual relationships, we have
                                                  come up with maybe two dozen
                                                  different ways to describe
                                                  the various ways that two
                                                  people can be fucking. Using\
                                                  one of those words or phrases
                                                  is not "slapping a label" on
                                                  it, it is using the English
                                                  language. Because of the
                                                  inherent ambiguity in language
                                                  it is a good idea to verify
                                                  your understanding of what
                                                  the term means with the other
                                                  party, yes, but refusing to
                                                  use commonly used words
                                                  because they can be
                                                  misunderstood and instead
                                                  use other less commonly used
                                                  words in the hope that they
                                                  are less likely to be
                                                  misunderstood is unlikely to
                                                  be an improvement. I think you
                                                  are trying to solve the
                                                  problem (people misunderstand,
                                                  get hurt, disappointed, etc)
                                                  in relationships with the
                                                  wrong tool, but it doesn't
                                                  hurt to try.
             \_ I think you misunderstand what I'm suggesting.  I'm not
                suggesting we try to come up with some more precise
                terminology to discuss relationships.  It's not going to
                happen.  But I have found that throwing out labels and just
                discussing things with partners has been highly beneficial to
                my relationships. -dans
                \_ If it forces you to communicate more, than I can see how
                   that might help, but with the great big caveat that you
                   can talk about things until you are blue in the face and
                   still end up with hurt feelings. But you have to figure
                   that one out for yourself.
        \_ Go for it man.  Or else you'll regret for the rest of your life
           after you marry your gf and find that she turns into someone not
           what she used to be befone not
           what she used to be before marriage.   -- guy who has such a wife
        \_ I'm considering just becoming Gold Bond My Testicles Instead Of
           Convincing My Girlfriend To Have Sex guy #1 instead.
           \_ OMG GBMTIOCMGTHSG LOL !!!1!!!
        \_ Either break up with your gf/dating-thing and then go wild, or
           stick with your gf/dating-thing and forget the other girls. Only
           callow, cowardly punks cheat. Cowboy up.
           \_ I am not sure I agree with this. In a lot of the world men
              have mistresses and it is more accepted. It also saves a lot
              of marriages. Just because you want to schtup some chick
              doesn't mean you want to forsake your companion of 20 years.
              Other cultures realize this.
              \_ In a lot of the world people do horrible and dreadfully
                 unspeakable things to each other we'd slam you straight into
                 prison for here.  If you're cheating you haven't saved your
                 marriage.  You destroyed it.
                 \_ Says who? Your JudeoChristian church? Bill Clinton?
                    Having a mistress is not as big a deal as you think to
                    many people in the world. Did you read about the
                    Russian basketball player whose wife allows him one
                    "freebie" a year as long as she doesn't know about it?
                    How is his marriage destroyed? They both seem happy.
                    \_ In large parts of the world, women are 3rd class
                       members of society with zero rights who have undergo
                       'female circumcision'.  If you think that's cool, then
                       where ever you're from I don't want to go there.  Your
                       anecdotal "I'm a trophy wife and don't want to lose my
                       rich husband" story doesn't help you any.  What do you
                       think he would say is *she* went out once a year for a
                       "don't tell me" quickie?  She'd be out on her ass in
                       seconds.  That is your idea of a happy marriage?
                       \_ You make a lot of suppositions here. No one said
                          anything about double standards or 3rd class
                          citizens. Are the women in France and Italy 3rd class
                          citizens? You are imposing your red state morals
                          on the rest of the world.
                          \_ If you're going to say "the rest of the world", I
                             am free to pick any part of the world I want.
                             I find your "red state morals" line amusing.
                             Your version of morals is what?  "If it feels
                             good and she doesn't know its ok"?
              \_ In Saudi Arabia and Utah, you can have four wives. Why
                 not just move there?
                 \_ Not in Utah.  Not legally.
                 \_ One wife is more than enough. A wife and a mistress
                    is so much better than two wives.
              \_ Unless those same places allow women to take extramarital
                 lovers, you're talking about inequality and a sacrifice of
                 ethics in the name of convenience. Try harder. Oh, and if you
                 plan to explore polyamory, have the decency to inform your
                 \_ What do you mean "allow"? We're not talking about laws
                    here, but about cultural attitudes towards casual sex.
                    \_ Which leads to women being stoned in those same
                       \_ France and Italy?
                          \_ You never heard of an Italian divorce? In France,
                             married women can have lovers as freely as married
                             \_ I've never heard the term "Italian divorce"
                                but your comment about the French is exactly
                                my point. No one is getting stoned in
                                France for taking a mistress and it's a
                                lot more accepted there than there. I do
                                believe it saves marriages. I think people
                                are willing to overlook indiscretions if
                                their partner is happy. It's not always better
                                to divorce before philandering - for both
                                partners. It has nothing to do with Arabs or
                                whatever the previous person is implying.
                          \_ You never said France & Italy.  You said the
                             world.  Thanks.  So you're making the claim that
                             in France & Italy married couple have rampant
                             extramarital affairs and it is acceptable?  How
                             about you talk with Sarkozy's wife about that?
2007/10/23-25 [Computer/Domains, Computer/Networking, Computer/SW/WWW/Browsers] UID:48419 Activity:nil
10/22   "The Hippie movement was the most controversial and influential of
        modern times. Free love, the peace movement, drugs, Eastern religions
        and communes are explored. Meet the figures whose words and actions
        inspired it and destroyed it. See how the vibrations from that era
        are still resonating today in almost every aspect of American life,
        from the clothes we wear, to the Personal Computer and the Internet.
        Finally, historic footage, stills and period graphics are
        interwoven with expert commentary and eyewitness testimony."
        History Channel. Must see.                -no laid guy #3
        \_ If you spent your time studying hippies in the wild, at a rave
           or something, you might have better luck getting laid than if
           you stayed home watching television.
           \_ Actually I am watching this from work using the Slingbox. -op
              \_ You probably won't get laid that way either.
        \_ 1968.
2007/10/23-25 [Recreation/Pets] UID:48420 Activity:nil
        Why monkeys are smarter than dogs (they ride dogs!)
        \_ If I watch this am I going to see a dog getting tortured by a
           monkey?  I don't want to see that.  Also, I don't think anyone
           has considered dogs smarter than monkeys in the last century or
           more, if ever.
2007/10/23-26 [Politics/Domestic/Crime, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:48421 Activity:moderate
10/22   I haven't trolled emarkpd in a while.  How's that Mormon thing
        coming along?
        \_ He still supports Bush and his Iraq War in the glorious name
           of freedom. Troll on that.
        \_ Wow.  Now I'm a daemon process? -emarkp
        \_ Hey emarkp, why are Republicans against renewal energy and weed?
           \_ Because all Republicans are evil neanderthals and all Democrats
              are living incarnations of the essence of Good.  This is the
              motd, there is no other fact you need know.  Run along.
              \_ you know there is a lot of current evidence that Republicans
                 and their media machine and all the noisy right wing blogs
                 are really run by insane, evil neanderthals bent on destroying
                 all that is good in this world.  democrats just aren't that
              \_ Straw man. No one on the motd believes the latter statement
                 (though perhaps many believe the former).
                 \_ They don't believe it but they sure say it on the motd
                    a lot.  Are they all trolls?  No, there are people right
                    here on the motd who actually believe it.
                    \_ I have never seen anyone post to the motd that Democrats
                       are all perfect, except in satire. Can you find one for
                       \_ This is the place to be to see Democrat politico
                          stupidly defended to the bitter end.  The most
                          recent case being "Reid+40 other (D) Senators wrote
                          a smearing lie letter to a radio show host's boss
                          in an effort to help charity".  But really you know
                          that and many other things I don't have to dig out
                          of the archives.  There's no point.  Go post your
                          final comment if you like.  I won't respond any
                          futher to such an obvious troll.  You've been fed
                          enough today.
                          \_ can we please classify dans as "idiot" rather
                             than "democrat"?
                                  -- ilyas
                                \_ But ilyas, isn't the wikipedia composed by
                                   the crowds of unwashed masses?  Isn't it a
                                   tool for unsuspecting fools and morons
                                   doomed to be duped by faux inexpert
                                   wisdom; the blind leading the blind if you
                                   will?  I'm shocked.  Shocked I say that you
                                   would quote from such a source. -dans
                                        -- ilyas
                              \_ Nope, more like his idiocy trumps everything
                                 else.  It's not that he isn't a true democrat,
                                 it's that he is also a true egotistical moron
                                 as well.
                                 \_ Clearly I'm doing sometthing right if I'm
                                    pissing people off this much. -dans
                            \_ I don't think dans would consider himself a
                               Democrat, but am ready to concede here if wrong.
                               How about it dans, are you a Democrat?
                               \_ No, but I have voted for Democrats in the
                                  past. -dans
2007/10/23-25 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:48422 Activity:low
10/22   Nixon is against counter culture.
        Bush is against _________________.
        Fill in the blank.
        \_ Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness
           \_ Nonono, Bush will justify any action in the name of
              life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.
        \_ motd trolls.  He's on record as taking a firm stance against motd
        \_ counter revolutionary propaganda.
2007/10/23-25 [Computer/Companies/Google] UID:48423 Activity:nil
10/22   How do I take an address out of my gmail address book? A friend of
        mine changed email providers and now I have two whenever I try to
        email her. It is hard for me to remember which one is valid.
           them with my precious mail. Trust big companies, like Yahoo!
           \_ shut the fuck dumbass.  hey original poster,
        \_ Switch back to the new Yahoo! account, it is so much better.
           Also Google is like NSCP, it's not sustainable. I don't trust
           them with my precious mail. Trust big companies, like Yahoo!
           \_ shut the fuck dumbass.  hey original poster, jus tfind
              your friend's entry in your Contacts and delete the old
        \_ just find your friend's entry in your Contacts and delete the old
              \_ Thanks, don't know why I didn't think of that.
           \_ Thanks for stomping on my reply to Penthouse Forum guy.
              Please respect other people's edit locks.
2007/10/23-25 [Uncategorized] UID:48424 Activity:nil
10/22   EriK which Roomba generation do you have? 1st and 2nd needed to be
        told the room size. I'm curious so I don't end up buying the wrong
        one (the one you have). Thanks.
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2007:October:23 Tuesday <Monday, Wednesday>