Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2007:October:15 Monday <Sunday, Tuesday>
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2007/10/15-17 [Consumer/Audio] UID:48313 Activity:nil
10/13   The Zune has an FM Ftuner. Is there any MP3 player with an AM tuner?
        I saw Panasonic makes a portable CD player that plays MP3 and has
        an AM tuner, but playing MP3 from CD is not quite the same thing.
2007/10/15-16 [Politics/Foreign/Asia/China, Health/Disease/General, Science/GlobalWarming] UID:48314 Activity:high 64%like:48322
10/15   It occured to me this morning that treating women as equal to men has,
        so far, proven to be a poor choice for our society evolutionarily.
        This suggests the practice will probably die out evenutally.
        \_ Too soon to tell. I suspect that the socities with faster growth
           rates may be subject to a massive die-off sooner or later.
        \_ What do you mean?  Fewer offspring?  Fewer offspring may be the
           only long-term viable evolutionary strategy due to environmental
           limits.
           \_ That's a salient point, but it requires that all societies agree
              to limit reproduction.  You may get two sets of societies, 'the
              moral slow reproducers' and the 'immoral fast reproducers.' There
              will still be an environmental catastrophe, but the fast
              reproducers will have many more people than the slow reproducers.
              The result is the fast reproducers wipe out the slow reproducers
              in resource wars.  There is historical precedence.
              \_ Oh you mean like in California, the whites are getting
                 wiped out by the exploding Latino population? You RACIST!
              \_ Historical precedent is invalidated by technological
                 advantage.  When the slow reproducers have a massive military
                 technological advantage due to not living at or below bare
                 subsistence, numbers won't matter.
                 \_ This assumes that the slow reproducers live in segregated
                    political states. In reality there are slow vs. fast within
                    each political entity, especially now with multicultural
                    immigrant states. Therefore in the long run we have the
                    same result.
                    Multicultural states are therefore bad for the species,
                    because they lead to global homogenizing of cultures.
                    Diversity decreases in favor of the fastest-growing
                    domininant subcultures, leaving the population as a
                    whole at greater risk.
                    \_ There is about five assumptions you are making here,
                       none of which you have justified, but I will start
                       with the largest. Do you honestly believe that having
                       a multicultural state in say The Netherlands has any
                       effect on culture in Chad?
                       \_ Not so much, but it affects the culture in the
                          Netherlands. Multiculturalism is happening mostly
                          in countries which have slower birth rates
                          than the countries where the immigrants come from.
                          Large amounts of immigrants from [3rd world highly
                          populated country] have the potential to, in the
                          long run, make the culture in the host country
                          more like the 3rd world country.
                       \_ Not the pp, but jumping in here: actually, yes.
                          If NL hires guest workers from Chad, and those
                          workers come to appreciate the liberal freedoms of
                          the west, they'll export those ideas along with the
                          cash remittals. Consumerism has been shown over and
                          over again to be much more prolific than any
                          religion or ideology, given sufficient access to
                          resources and products.
              \_ Or you can get mass die off of the fast reproducers, which
                 we will probably see in a generation or two.
                 \_ A mass die off caused by what?  Is there some magic
                    disease that only infects people who have more than 2.2
                    children?
                    \_ Famine, disease, warfare, the usual things that
                       cause mass die offs, what else? It is already starting
                       to happen in some of the overpopulated parts of Africa.
        \_ You're begging the question; the societies which treat women
           equally are significantly out-competing the societies which
           don't.  -tom
           \_ Not in population, which is probably the most important metric
              from an evolutionary perspective.
              \_ Not if you're talking about survival of the society
                 (as opposed to the genotype).  -tom
           \_ In what way?  If there was a world wide plague which wiped out
              a few billion people, the less technically dependent people
              would have an advantage in numbers and societal structure in
              the aftermath.
              \_ So why aren't well all cockroaches.  Oh yeah, because pure
              \_ The U.S. is much better equipped to deal with a world wide
                 plague than India or China, partly because we haven't
                 overpopulated in the way those countries have.  If plague
                 with high mortality hits and the U.S. drops down to 100
                 million population and China drops down to 200 million,
                 does that mean China is doing beter?  -tom
              \_ So why aren't we all cockroaches.  Oh yeah, because pure
                 biomass is not what makes something a dominant species.  This
                 is especially true when talking about memes instead of genes.
                 \_ Cockroaches don't (can't?) compete in our ecological
                    sphere. We can eat cockroaches for example. Other humans
                    do compete with us: they use the same resources and inhabit
                    the same gene pool. Domination only matters if the dominant
                    ones are willing to crush the subordinate ones like
                    Nazis, an ideology which has been rejected. Hitler was a
                    Nazi. And thus the discussion is complete.
                 \_ You aren't cockroaches because the cockroaches are the
                    cockroaches.  Who says cockroaches haven't already won
                    from a survival and evolutionary perspective?  Long after
                    your pathetic species has imploded, the taken for granted
                    little cockroaches will still be here skittering about,
                    doing our cockroach things.  We pity you, human.  We've
                    already won, you just don't know it.
2007/10/15-17 [Uncategorized] UID:48315 Activity:nil
10/15   http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20896254
        Rise in vaginal tightening surgeries a concern, reports MSNBC.
2007/10/15-17 [Science/Disaster, Science/GlobalWarming] UID:48316 Activity:nil
10/15   "Oil Futures Hit New Record Above $85"
        http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/071015/oil_prices.html
        Just Two weeks ago some economist was predicting $100 by end of next
        year.  It might even come sooner than that.
2007/10/15-17 [Reference/Law/Court, Reference/RealEstate] UID:48317 Activity:kinda low
10/15   2 blocks of my neighborhood were completely blocked and there
        were police all over the apartment unit next to mine. They blocked
        everyone and they wouldn't even let residents nearby go in/out of
        the street! We were locked down for maybe 2.5 hours-- I was
        starving, and almost peed in my pants. Is the lock down even
        LEGAL??? Can I sue the police for creating disturbance? Anyways
        rumor has it that there were shootings and some people got killed.
        As I'm searching local news online I couldn't find any reported
        incidents. Are there other places to find crime data and details
        of the police report?           -just got a pepper spray
        \_ I hope you are trolling the motd for amusement.  In my heart
           I hope to G-d none of my fellow sodans are this dumb.
           I hope to God none of my fellow sodans are this dumb.
        \_ Do you live in Oakland?
        \_ You don't have a toilet in your apartment bathroom?
        \_ In order to sue, you'd have to prove that the police were not
           acting in accordance with their duty at the time. If there were
           shootings and people got killed, your odds of doing so are slim to
           none.
        \_ Great idea, sue the police for trying to stop shootings in your
           neighborhood.
        \_ There was a shooting and you bought... pepper spray.  Okey dokey!
           \_ You did't see the "Talk about bringing a gun to a knife fight:"
              article in that other thread above?  -- !OP
2007/10/15-19 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Israel] UID:48318 Activity:kinda low
10/15   Gotta love it when liars (CAIR) are exposed:
        http://csua.org/u/jqe
        \_ Links to Little Green Footballs, promoting paranoia and anti-
           Islamic sentiment so you don't have to.
           \_ The link has a scan of a check to CAIR, and quoting a statement
              from CAIR denying it.  Do you claim that they're faking it?
              \_ No, I object to you posting partisan links without posting
                 the full URL or, barring that, identifying the source. I'm not
                 saying that no one should read Freeper or LGF or WashTimes or
                 Townhall, I'm just saying that you should give people an
                 opportunity to know what the source is before they click the
                 link. I'd do it before I sent you to Media Matters or MoveOn
                 or even the New York Times.
                 \_ I only shortened to the link because it was over 80
                    columns.  It's not a porn site.
                    \_ Don't be disingenuous.  It takes less than four
                       seconds to write a useful descriptive comment. -dans,!PP
                       \_ So anyway, is Cair lying or not?  -someone else
                          \_ So anyway, is op being disingenuous or not?
                          \_ I neither know nor care.  Were you failing to
                             make a point or just following in the OP's proud
                             disingenuous footsteps? -dans
                             \_ Funny.  I see it the exact opposite way.  I
                                don't care if the OP is disingenous or not
                                because it doesn't matter.  It matters a lot
                                more when a monied lobbying group lies.  That
                                is what I care about.  They either did or did
                                not.  Which is it?  -!op
                                \_ Dunno about dans, but for me the issue isn't
                                   the pristine integrity of the org, rather
                                   the good that they do.
                                   \_ My thinking tends to be similar, though
                                      for different reasons.  My working
                                      assumption is that virtually all
                                      politicians and/or political
                                      organizations are, to some extent,
                                      dirty or corrupt.  Want to take CAIR to
                                      task?  More power to you, but don't
                                      discriminate.  Take every dirty
                                      organization/politician, regardless of
                                      political ideology, to task. -dans
                                      \_ I'm opposed to all dirty orgs.  The
                                         op posted a link about this particular
                                         one so that is the topic.  Did they or
                                         did they not lie?  And as far as the
                                         'good' that CAIR does, I'd be most
                                         impressed to see a list of their
                                         positive accomplishments for this
                                         country.  Given their foreign cash
                                         sources, past statements, and ties
                                         to anti-American foreign orgs I don't
                                         think the plus column for CAIR is
                                         very long.
                                         \_ If you're opposed to all dirty
                                            orgs, who do you like, then?
                                            \_ Pet rescue.  Money for children
                                               of vets killed/injured in war
                                               to go to college.  Children's
                                               reading book donation programs.
                                               A few others.  CAIR doesn't
                                               make the list of 'good' orgs by
                                               any measure.  There are *no*
                                               good political orgs I'm aware
                                               of.  I'm surprised you couldn't
                                               think of a clean non-profit org.
                                            \_ The Catholic Church
                                               \_ Mother Teresa: corrupt,
                                                  malignant dwarf. -Hitchens
                                               \_ Re: The Holocaust: oops.
                                                  But, no, really the Pope has
                                                  a direct line to God who is
                                                  infallible.
                                                  Re: Widespread sexual abuse
                                                  of children at the hands of
                                                  priests: Oops.  We'll just
                                                  sweep this under the rug
                                                  because it would really suck
                                                  if people sued us. -dans
2007/10/15-17 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:48319 Activity:low
10/15   Things you may not have read about Sanchez's comments:
        1) "The American military finds itself in an intractable situation ...
        America has no choice but to continue our efforts in Iraq,"
        2) "What is clear to me is that you are perpetuating the corrosive
        partisan politics that is destroying our country and killing our
        service members who are at war. My assessment is that your profession,
        to some, has strayed from these ethical standards and allowed external
        agendas to manipulate what the American public sees on TV, reads in
        newspapers and what they see on the Web," Sanchez said.
        http://www.fairandbalanced.com/story/0,2933,301676,00.html
        \_ Did he say this to a Fox News reporter?
           \_ In his speech to the Military Reporters and Editors Association
              in Washington, D.C., on Friday....
        \_ I love the lefties who censor the URL.  Shows their hypocrisy so
              \_ Yes, I know, I was making a joke. Even funnier that he said
                 it to a bunch of Stars and Stripe's reporters.
           \_ Full transcript
              http://www.militaryreporters.org/sanchez_101207.html
        \_ I love the commies who censor the URL.  Shows their hypocrisy so
           well.
           \_ Sup jblack, long time no motd!
              \_ I'm not jblack. -pp
2007/10/15-17 [Uncategorized] UID:48320 Activity:nil
10/13   People say blondes are dumb. Is this primarily due to genes,
        environment, or media rumor? What does The Bell Curve say about
        blondes?
        \_ Really, blondes aren't any dumber than anyone else.  They're
           just seen as more beautiful and desirable, so everyone else
           wants to put them down somehow just out of envy.
           \_ While that's true, I've also noticed that, in general, people
              who can get by on looks tend to do so.  This tends to reduce the
              amount of experience they get in other areas. Experience creates
              knowledge, which is a commonly used as a metric for intelligence.
              \_ I'm not so sure how much people can actually "get by on looks".
                 If they're "getting by on looks" it often means they're
                 getting used because they've got looks.
                 \_ Lots of movie stars are as dumb as rocks.
                 \_ These are not mutually exclusive and in fact often go
                    hand-in-hand. People who get by on their looks often
                    expect to be used for their looks, if they think about it.
        \_ People who dye their hair blonde are probably dumber than the
           average--and that accounts for most "blondes".
        \_ I did see a blonde do the "roll on you bears" cheer in the
           opposite direction at a game few weeks ago.
2007/10/15-17 [Uncategorized] UID:48321 Activity:nil
10/15   Talk about bringing a gun to a knife fight:
        link:www.mercurynews.com/ci_7183508?source=rss
        \_ Daaaaaaaaaaaaaamn!
2007/10/15 [Uncategorized] UID:48322 Activity:nil 64%like:48314
10/15   It occured to me this morning that treating trools as equal to real
        thoughts so far, been a poor choice.  This suggests the practice
        will probably die out eventually.
        \_ Why delete my reply?
2007/10/15 [Politics/Domestic/Abortion, Politics/Domestic] UID:48323 Activity:nil
10/15   Sexist and racist remarks deleted, regardless of proofs & facts.
        \_ Can facts be sexist?  I've always thought only untrue statments can
           be sexist or racist.  Is "men are generally stronger than women"
           sexist?  What about "black people are darker than white people?"
           Or, "men cannot become pregnant?"
        \_ Reality doesn't have liberal bias after all.
2007/10/15 [Politics/Domestic] UID:48324 Activity:nil 66%like:48325
10/15   Harry Reid sucks (yes, even in NV)
        http://blogs.usatoday.com/onpolitics/2007/10/at-home-in-neva.html
2007/10/15-18 [Politics/Domestic/RepublicanMedia, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:48325 Activity:kinda low 66%like:48324
10/15   Reid sucks (yes even in NV) [restored, after someone deleted it]
        http://blogs.usatoday.com/onpolitics/2007/10/at-home-in-neva.html
        \_ Tied with Bush!
           http://www.pollingreport.com/BushJob.htm
           \_ Except one terms out.  The other we're stuck with til he dies
              of old age.
              \_ If he's as unpopular as op implies, he'll be out at the next
                 election. Want to make a bet?
                 \_ His popularity appears to me to be linked to his leadership
                    position.  People see the congress as ineffective, and that
                    goes to his leadership of it.
                 \_ Actually Bush is now at 24%, according to Zogby:
                    http://www.csua.org/u/jqu (WashPo)
                    But who do you believe, Fox News! which has Bush
                    at 35% or Zogby which has him at 24%?
                 \_ I bet he gets re-elected, since he won last time by
                    26% and he does not face re-election until 2010.
                 \_ Depends on who runs but betting against an incumbent, any
                    incumbent, in this country is always a bad bet.  That says
                    nothing about how good our incumbents are and everything
                    about the process of electing people.  Reid is still a
                    do-nothing.
2007/10/15-18 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:48326 Activity:low
10/15   The House pushing a resolution about the Armenian Genocide,
        The president asks the Speaker of the House to pull the legislation
        from the floor.
        Year: 2000
        Speaker: Hastert
        President: Clinton
        http://csua.org/u/jqi
        (Washington Post)
        \_ In 2000 we didn't need Turkey to short path supplies to our
           soldiers.  Was that your point?
           \_ Setting up for the old Dolchstosslegende so soon? I guess
              you guys have finally seen that your crazy crusade is going
              to fail.
               \_ The washington post, right wing super conservative news
                  organ, disagrees with you.  If you think pissing off your
                  closest allies during war is good diplomacy....
2007/10/15-17 [Politics/Domestic/SocialSecurity] UID:48327 Activity:moderate
10/15   First Baby Boomer files for Social Security.  DOOM!
        http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071015/ap_on_go_ot/boomer_social_security
        \_ Oh shit! They're going to bankrupt the nation. Let's kill them.
           \_ How so?  Social Security is a cornerstone of the socialist
              promise.  You don't want SS but you want universal health care?
              *boggle*!
              \_ *I* don't want either.
           \_ Your disk has turned black. Please report to the Carousel.
              \_ lifeclocks turn flashing red at time of renewal.
2007/10/15-17 [Health, Health/Men] UID:48328 Activity:nil
10/15   New "the Wire" out soon
        http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2007/10/22/071022fa_fact_talbot?printable=true
2007/10/15-17 [Health/Dental] UID:48329 Activity:nil
10/15   Brit socialized medicine so great that they're pulling out their own
        teeth:  (cnn.com)
        http://csua.org/u/jql
        \_ obAustinPowersJoke
2007/10/15 [Science/GlobalWarming] UID:48330 Activity:nil
10/15   It occured t'me dis mo'nin' dat treatin' honky chicks as equal t'men
        has, so's far, been some poo' choice evolushunarily. Slap mah fro! Dis
        suggests de practice gots'ta probably kick d' cud out eventually. Slap
        mah fro!
        \_ What do you mean?  Fewer offspring?  Fewer offspring may be the
           only long-term viable evolutionary strategy due to environmental
           limits.
           \_ That's a salient point, but it requires that all societies agree
              to limit reproduction.  You may get two sets of societies, 'the
              moral slow reproducers' and the 'immoral fast reproducers.' There
              will still be an environmental catastrophe, but the fast
              reproducers will have many more people than the slow reproducers.
              The result is the fast reproducers wipe out the slow reproducers
              in resource wars.  There is historical precedence.
              \_ Historical precedent is invalidated by technological
                 advantage.  When the slow reproducers have a massive military
                 technological advantage due to not living at or below bare
                 subsistence, numbers won't matter.
                 \_ This assumes that the slow reproducers live in segregated
                    political states. In reality there are slow vs. fast within
                    each political entity, especially now with multicultural
                    immigrant states. Therefore in the long run we have the
                    same result.
                    Multicultural states are therefore bad for the species,
                    because they lead to global homogenizing of cultures.
                    Diversity decreases in favor of the fastest-growing
                    domininant subcultures, leaving the population as a
                    whole at greater risk.
              \_ Or you can get mass die off of the fast reproducers, which
                 we will probably see in a generation or two.
2007/10/15-16 [Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:48331 Activity:moderate
10/15   "Obama is a Muslim" smear campaign still around
        http://dyn.politico.com/printstory.cfm?uuid=9137C354-3048-5C12-000A32656C8CAEA4
        \_ Let's assume he is a Muslim.  So what?  Romney is a Mormon.  So
           what?  The person least likely to get elected in this country is
           an atheist.
           \_ And still they feel the need to attack him as a Muslim, mostly
              on guilt by association.  "You know, that Obama Hussien guy,
              he looks awful swarthy to me."  It's racist pandering pure
              he looks awful dark to me."  It's racist pandering pure
              and simple.  Racist pandering bugs me.
              \_ And Romney gets attacked for being a Mormon.  So?  Does that
                 bug you, too?
                 \_ But isn't Romney really a Mormon? Isn't Obama actually
                    an Episcapalian or something?
                 \_ Frankly, Romney getting attacked for actually being a
                    Mormon is less disturbing to me than Obama getting attacked
                    for being a Muslim when he is not. The issue here is not
                    Obama's religion (a dumb reason to attack anyone, even
                    Romney), but scandalous lies spread to harm a candidate.
                    Cf. John McCain's black babies.
2007/10/15-18 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:48332 Activity:moderate
10/15   Republicans working on the "Stab In The Back Myth"
        for use after our defeat in Iraq:
        http://www.harpers.org/archive/2006/06/0081080
        \_ More at:
           http://www.thenation.com/doc/20071015/alterman
        \_ that sounds like traitor talk to me!
        \_ It is funny to watch the Right in full on paranoid melt-down mode.
           Just wait until after Commander-In-Chief Hillary Rodham Clinton
           is inaugurated!
           \_ will the hills be far enough a place to head for?
           \_ Oh boy, utopia, 4-8 more years of corruption, law breaking, lies
              and *-gate scandals along with the troops staying in Iraq past
              2013.  Can't wait.  Sounds like an American success story.
              \_ Fortunately, Bush can't run again, Cheney won't run, and
                 BushCo has made it extraordinarily unlikely that a Repub
                 will win, so the problem is solved!
                 \_ Uh yeah, like I said.  Elect Clinton to get 4-8 more years
                    of corruption, lies, *gate and troops in Iraq past 2013.
                    \_ If Hillary can figure out how to get fellated in the
                       Oval Office, more power to her.
              \_ Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.
                 We won't get fooled again!
        \_ Looks like the Sanchez speech was all part of the mythos building:
           http://www.prospect.org/cs/articles?article=the_disgruntled_general
           \_ No, the article in your link is about "Sanchez was an idiot and
              he's bitter so this is him moaning and griping about his failures
              and blaming everyone but himself".
2017/11/19 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
11/19   
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2007:October:15 Monday <Sunday, Tuesday>