Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2007:August:31 Friday <Thursday, Saturday>
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2007/8/31-9/3 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:47841 Activity:nil
8/31    If you're going to chop the motd at least leave the threads people
        are still talking on.  You reduced it to 3 inactive garbage threads.
        You might as well have just erased the whole thing.  Restored.
        \_ Thank you motd fascist! - motd fascist #1 fan
           \_ I restored content.  I'm a fascist.  Uh huh.  Send money to my
              paypal account if you're really my fan.
2007/8/31-9/3 [Academia/Berkeley, Academia/Berkeley/Classes] UID:47842 Activity:nil
8/31    http://appleorangescale.com/?wd0=berkeley&wd1=stanfurd&wd2=ucla&wd3=harvard
        More useless proof that Berkeley >> Stanfurd:
        stanfurd < ucla < harvard < berkeley
        \_ Better than for what?
2007/8/31-9/3 [Uncategorized] UID:47843 Activity:nil
8/31    I really hate those Enzyte and Viva Viagra and
        KRAD STUDENT LOANS!!!! commercials.  Perhaps they
        remind me of my own mortality.
2007/8/31-9/3 [Computer/SW/OS, Computer/SW/OS/VM] UID:47844 Activity:nil
8/31    is this cooler than say kickstart or FAI or whatever
        the current cool way to admin 10000 machines is?:
        http://code.google.com/p/ganeti
        \_ This seems to be focused on managing Xen VMs and require
           the host to have Xen already installed.  I'm still a fan
           of cfengine, though it won't do the initial install.  But
           I have setup kickstart to just install cfengine at the end
           of the install and have cfengine take care of most of the
           configurations.
           \_ Is it a lot of overhead to have Xen running on every machine?
           \_ Why not use System Imager?
              \_ System Imager, as it was last time I looked, is fine if
                 you're managing bunch of machines with *identical*
                 configurations.  cfengine is more flexible and can work
                 across multiple platforms as well.  Also changing a
                 configuration doesn't involve re-imaging the whole machine.
                 \_ System Imager is more flexible than that. You can
                    propagate just the changes. I much prefer SI to
                    Kickstart. If you want to use cfEngine on top of that
                    then fine, but cfEngine solves a (mostly) different
                    problem.
2007/8/31-9/3 [Computer/SW/OS/OsX] UID:47845 Activity:nil
8/31    original macintosh user manual:
        http://www.peterme.com/?p=583
        \_ "...... every photo shows a preppy white male using the
           computer. ...  (The dude in Chapter 4 even has a *sweater* around
           his shoulders!!!)"
           Was a sweater a White thing in the '80s?
2007/8/31-9/3 [Politics/Foreign, Politics/Domestic/President] UID:47846 Activity:nil
8/31    Awesome editorial cartoon on the Opus controversy
        http://www.coxandforkum.com/archives/001189.html
        \_ Is this old news?  This seems like it is years old.
           Maybe it's not.  Inflammatory Islam cartoon is so old
           and boring.
           \_ The opus thing is current.
        \_ Correction: boring editorial cartoon on WaPo's ridiculous
           decision. The original Opus cartoon is much better:
           http://csua.org/u/jf7 (Salon.com, free)
2007/8/31-9/3 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Troll/Ilyas, Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:47847 Activity:low
8/31    I figured out why motd sucks so much.  All the people
        who used to post didn't bother coming into the office
        to re-register their account after politburo sorried
        everyone after Break-in #1.  Or was that Break-in #2?
        #3?  I can't remember anymore.
        \_ I didn't come to the office to re-register.  But I am famous!
             -- ilyas
        \_ I haven't been in the office for years.
        \_ I have never been to the office once, not even when I first signed
           up for an account.  -- Class of '93
2007/8/31-9/3 [Reference/History/WW2/Japan, Politics/Foreign/Asia/Japan, Computer/HW/IO] UID:47848 Activity:nil
8/31    More Japanese Jubblies mouse pads, and an instructive sign for
        those who don't get it. (Pretty much SFW)
        http://csua.org/u/jf5
2007/8/31 [Uncategorized] UID:47849 Activity:kinda low
8/31    I want to cry. I'm 5'5", the same weight I've been for years
        (130), and 24 years old. I've been noticing lately that my usual
        34DDD's were fitting a little strangely, so I went to get some new bras
        today. On a whim, I tried on a 34GG and it fit. I panicked,
        thought it was a fluke, and tried on 34GG's in two other
        brands. They all fit -- perfectly.
        It was the first time I've ever cried in a dressing room. I thought
        that after my teens, my breasts wouldn't get bigger if I didn't
        gain weight, was I wrong? I'm terrified they may grow even
        larger....and I feel like a freak. 34DDD was pushing it, but I
        could manage. For some reason, being a 34GG makes me feel
        like a complete freak. Has anyone else experienced something like
        this? Going up in cup sizes without weight gain well after their
        teens?!?!
2007/8/31 [Health/Women] UID:47850 Activity:kinda low
8/31    I started birth control at 16...8 years ago, and my dose
        has only gotten lower over the years. My growth has been gradual
        since I started (34DD at 16 when I started, 34DDD by 17,
        34H by almost 18, and steady until just now). That said, every
        woman in my family also grew like this (were around a D at a young
        age --I was a 34D by 12-- and went bigger into their
        late teens). It should also be noted that my mom's a 36DDD, my
        aunt a 38G, and my G-ma was a 34H. I feel like I'd be screwed no
        matter what. However, I'm planning to get off the pill soon, so we
        shall see....keeping my fingers crossed.
2007/8/31 [Uncategorized] UID:47851 Activity:kinda low
8/31    mine grew at age 25. im 26 now but i went from a 34B to a 36DDD.
        im not on any birth control, havent changed much lifestyle-wise.
        its horrible. its amazing what FOUR cup sizes can do.
2007/8/31 [Recreation/Dating, Reference/Tax] UID:47852 Activity:nil
8/31    Yesterday  I bought a bra. 34GG. And of course, specialty items
        cost more. After tax I shelled out $80 for the darn thing, but I
        have uncovered about four inches of skin I haven't seen since early
        puberty. The lady at the store tried to get me to buy this
        contraption she called a "Custom Fit Bra", which to me looked like
        the old fifties maidenforms. I looked like I had traffic cones
        under my shirt, it was a nasty pale pink with yellowed
        lace at the edges, there was NO, repeat NO elastic in the whole
        garment, and before tax the thing was $94. I felt trussed up and
        like I was about to poke someone's eye out. Pushy sales lady kept
        harping on the fact that this torture device was featured on
        Oprah.  "You'll love it," she said, "It's the most comfortable bra
        you'll ever own. Oh, and the cups round out after a few washings."
        Not for me, thanks. Sell it to Madonna.
2007/8/31 [Recreation/Dating] UID:47853 Activity:nil
8/31    my boobz grew again. i didn't think that they could grow anymore
        but apparently they can. this has upset me in more ways than i
        can say. i'm very seriously considering surgery. very
        seriously. i can't believe they grew again. i can't believe how
        much i hate them. really really hate them.  i tried to race
        philipp through the park a few days ago and discovered i can't
        run anymore. not even when i clutch my boobs to my chest. my bra
        gets all messed up, my back starts hurting, my boobs hurt, and i
        can't breathe. i'm like a cripple. i have a physical handicap
        with nipples.  i apologize for the drama and whining in this
        post. but you would be upset too if you found out you had gone
        from a 34G to a 34GG. in my world, that a HUGE difference.  i
        now officially have to buy my bras online. nobody should have to
        buy bras online. and do you know what kind of bras they sell
        online in that size??  HIDEOUS ones. the kind where you will
        never be able to wear a tank top again. not even one with thick
        straps. oh no.. and no low cuts either. it's like being banned
        to a wardrobe restricted world of 40 year old woman clothes.
2007/8/31 [Recreation/Dating] UID:47854 Activity:nil
8/31    I am wearing a 32f black T-Shirt bra at the moment.  My boobs
        make my back hurt so much that I have a hard time sitting at a desk
        for more than 15 minutes, so I am seriously thinking about getting
        a breast reduction. Other than that, I like them. I like the
        attention I get from them except when I am at work (I'm a youth
        worker and 15 year olds suck at hiding boob stare).  What do I do
        other than carry around boobs?
2007/8/31 [Recreation/Dating] UID:47855 Activity:nil
8/31    I took my friend to my favorite bra store today. We both have big
        boobs (I'm a 34G). Her bras never fit her and she is always
        complaining that her back hurts. I explained to her that a
        good bra would do the trick. I asked what size bra she wore
        and told her that I was taking her to my favorite store. She
        told me that she wore a 36C (I argued and said no way and she
        argued back and told me that she just got measured at
        Victoria Secret)and agreed to go with me. Long story short,
        she got measured and turns out she is a 34FF and was suprised
        at how much of a difference it was now that she had a bra
        that fit. She thanked me, and I was happy.  and yet I still
        cannot figure out how she was fitting her FF boobs into a C.
2007/8/31 [Health] UID:47856 Activity:moderate
8/31    I've managed to get off most of the weight I put on from
        Depo-Provera and everything's almost back to normal at my waist and
        hips (which exercise will further help once my back heals), but I'm
        noticing that the extra cup size I gained isn't going down, or
        going so slow I can't tell. This time last year I was a 30FF; now
        I'm a 30G, and at the age of 30, it's not puberty anymore.
        Is there something that can help target the chest, whether diet or
        exercise ?
2007/8/31-9/3 [Politics/Foreign/Europe] UID:47857 Activity:moderate
8/31    Why'd you trash my HUMAN WEAPON thread but you kept the
        one about the chick in Unit I with 32DDD tits?
        \_ They do not get that pig wihtout significant
        \_ They do not get that big without significant
           pork action.
        \_ French martial arts look hilarious.  "When you are hit
           in leg, do not look at your leg.  You are not hurting
           in your leg, only your heart."
           \_ This is reflected in their "French military victory" records. :-)
              \_ Ignoring the Maginot Line, the french actually have an
              \_ Ignoring the Maginot Line, the French actually have an
                 incredible history of military victories.  They lost
                 so badly and quickly in WW2 because all of their fighting
                 men died horrible deaths in Verdun.
                 Anyway Americans who go on and on about French 'surrender
                 monkeys' piss me off, there would be no America without
                 French military support in the late 1700s.  The French
                 spent so much money on America that the French people got
                 pissed and executed their monarchy.
                 \_ I know how to settle this debate:  Let's just invade
                    France!!  They got weapon of mass destructions, and they
                    host terrorist... perfect.  what are better way to  find
                    out how good they fight by FIGHTING them?
                 \_ 1700s: true.  WW2 lost due to WW1: false.  The Germans
                    lost a huge number of men in WW1 also, so apples to apples
                    the French got their asses handed to them in WW2 because
                    their generals were *stupid* and still trying to fight
                    WW1 with their static fortress which didn't even cover
                    their entire border to the coast leading to the well
                    known end-run around it straight to Paris.  And btw, the
                    French in WW1 were so stupid, they had a revolt on the
                    line which only ended when a number of revolt leaders
                    stepped up to be executed for the revolt in exchange for
                    the generals promising to stop being such jackasses.
                  \- you may wish to read:
                     http://tinyurl.com/22bxm9
                     http://tinyurl.com/yr8pd4
                     [the first book pretty much grew out of a UCB PhD
                     thesis].
                     Also Twenty Years Crisis/EH Carr is very good but on
                     a slightly different matter. These are all standard.
                     \_ I don't see how either of these books refutes what
                        I had to say about France.  Or are you just suggesting
                        further reading I might find interesting?  In that
                        case the second link does look interesting, the first
                        much less so.  Thanks for the links.
                        \- i'm not agreeing or disagreeing with you.
                           but poltical scientists talk about ww1, ww2,
                           the cold war etc in different terms than historians
                           and these are two "standard works" in this area.
                           the carr book is just a good read, as is "man
                           the state and war" [which also touches on ww1 as
                           test case for a certain theory, but that is really
                           a theory of IR book, not a book about 20th cent
                           events, but is a major classic. on a trivia note:
                           the author of MSW is an important emeritus ucb
                           prof. the author of link #1 did his phd under him.
                           after he retired from ucb, the author of #2 link
                           invited him to teach an columbia]. BTW, if you are
                           deeply interested in the French military history
                           of the early 20th cent, you might also look at this:
                           http://tinyurl.com/2h6fas
                           Beth Kier is also not unattractive, although her
                           book is not of the stature of the ones above (i
                           havent read all of this one. it's a little more
                           airy-fairy).
                           Beth Kier I believe did her phd under the link #2
                           author and is not unattractive, although this book
                           is not of the stature of the ones above (i havent
                           read all of this one. it's a little more airy-fairy)
2007/8/31 [Uncategorized] UID:47858 Activity:nil
8/31    I eat too much. I know that I'm gaining weight because my boobs are
        getting bigger, and that's generally the first place I gain weight. Why
        won't they stop growing?? At this rate, I'm going to be a DDD by
        the time school ends. It wouldn't be so bad if I was taller than 5' 2".
2007/8/31 [Uncategorized] UID:47859 Activity:nil
8/31    One thing that hasn't stopped growing since the day I moved into
        Unit I is my boobs! They are out of control! I'm up to 36DDD
        (from 34D) and am horrified of how big they'll be when my milk
        comes in....where in the world will I find bras to fit me?? And,
        why won't they stop growing?!
2007/8/31-9/3 [Computer/SW/Unix] UID:47860 Activity:nil
8/31    Pretend I am going to be on a boat in the arctic.
        I want to upload whale song sound data while I am
        on my terrible internet connection in the middle of
        the arctic.  What would I use?  FTP seems so 80s.
        \_ FTP is a tool that works and does exactly the job you want.
           What's wrong with FTP?
           \_ I am unwilling to open up FTP on my server back
              here in the states.
              \_ Why?  What makes FTP more insecure than any other
                 way to transfer files?
                 \_ It's too annoying to ope nthe proper prots for
                    FTP .  have you ever tried?  if you have,
                    you would agree with me.
                    \_ All 2 ports?  Tom has the right answer below but you
                       can safely use ftp.  The real problem with what you're
                       looking to do is your shakey network connection.  You
                       want to make sure your xfer mechanism has an option
                       to restart from where it left off if you lose your
                       connection.  Ftp can do that.
        \_ sftp/scp/rsync.  -tom
2007/8/31-9/3 [Uncategorized] UID:47861 Activity:nil
8/31    messed up strained bicep shoulder guy here.  i think my shoulder
        is strained.  how do i strengthen it?
        \_ Find a doctor.  Get on massive inflamtories.  I strained my shoulder
           and the strain led to tendonitous in my arm and it really sucked.

8/3
           \_ You mean ANTI-inflammatories?
            \_ Yeah I do, where did I put that brain?
             \_ Those massive anti-inflammatories must have shrunk it.
2007/8/31-9/3 [Academia/Berkeley/CSUA/Motd] UID:47862 Activity:nil
8/31    dude where do you store all your motd snippets? berkeley db?
        \_ no, not bdb.  the motd doesn't need anything requiring even
           that little effort.
        \_ Who is this "dude" you're talking to, and what is this
           "motd snippet" you're refering to? Confused.
           \_ Yes.
2007/8/31-9/3 [Uncategorized] UID:47863 Activity:nil
8/31    Now that Milla Jovovich is pregnant, how huge will
        her chest get?
        Do you think she has a few more scenes to finish
        up in Resident Evil III ?
        \_ How huge can they get?
           http://www.uknet.net/showcase/Signedpics/milla_jovovich3.jpg (NSFW)
           link:xrl.us/5kdp (NSFW)
2007/8/31-9/3 [Politics/Domestic/President/Bush, Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:47864 Activity:kinda low
8/31    motd armchair historians, what do you think of bush's
        recent speech comparing Iraq to Vietnam?
        http://www.back-to-iraq.com/2007/08/dien-bien-fool.php
        \_ I think everyone who screamed "quagmire!" is just as stupid as
           everyone who thinks leaving Iraq now will lead to millions of dead
           like the killing fields in Cambodia.  Iraq != Vietnam in that
           sense.  The problem with leaving is that (once again) we will have
           meddled in something and put the lives of many locals on the line
           who trusted us and then fucked them by leaving.  Each time we do
           that we lose face and credibility around the world making
           diplomatic efforts much much harder since we continue to build up a
           history of our word having no value.  You break it, you bought it,
           you gotta fix it.
           \_ The problem is that it does not seem to matter if we stick around
              or not; we're not capable of fixing the situation. If we leave
              now rather than later, we will lose less American lives in the
              inevitable violence and the Iraqis may actually have a chance of
              getting things going on their own faster.
              \- everytime bush deals with a (living) historian, the historian
                 has to school/disown/disclaim BUSHCO. YMWTGF "john dower",
                 "alistair horne" etc.
              \_ An anonymous French politician recently agreed with you that
                 the only way Iraq would see peace would be if the US left
                 and let them slaughter each other until one side 'won' and
                 then we/whoever could assist them in 'diplomatically'
                 resolving their problems after the shooting stops.  Of course
                 at that point you have one side butchered, but hey, that's
                 ok, right, since they're not Americans.  Right?  No.  The
                 right thing to do is stick around for a while now that their
                 tribal leaders (this is a heavily tribal society unlike
                 Vietnam) have figured out that AlQ is bad news.  Places that
                 were deadly a year ago are now quiet and no more dangerous
                 than say, Oakland, is today.
                 \_ And how many trillions of taxpayer dollars and how many
                    thousands of American lives do we need to spend until we
                    get to your Iraq utopia?
                    \_ Strawman: No one said utopia.  Iraq was never a utopia.
                       How much blood and treasure you ask?  You tell me what
                       you think it is worth for the nation to have yet another
                       failure where we specifically abandon our local allies
                       to yet another mass murder event.  Each time we do that
                       we lose credibility around the world and encourage our
                       enemies.  Especially if we left right now when it looks
                       like things have finally turned in our favor with new
                       leadership and tactics and the tribes turning our way.
                       Nothing is so American these days like snatching defeat
                       from the jaws of victory.
                       \_ You guys have been claiming victory is right around
                          the corner for about four years now. You will have
                          to excuse me for not buying the bullshit anymore.
                          Remember when Reagan left Lebanon after the
                          Beirut bombings? Too bad Bush is no Ronald Reagan.
        \_ I think Bush is very much like Johnson.
2007/8/31-9/3 [Uncategorized] UID:47865 Activity:nil
8/31    more from the dude who prematurely burned down The Man
        http://pigdog.org/auto/burningman/shortfeature/3052.html
        http://www.pigdog.org/authors/cs.html
        It must be weird spending your life trying to emulate
        an author.
2007/8/31-9/3 [Industry/Startup] UID:47866 Activity:nil
8/31    Paul Graham talks out of ass, does not mention
        how awesome lisp is even once!
        http://www.paulgraham.com/die.html
        \_ I revise my position on his words.  not so bad.
2007/8/31-9/2 [Science/Space, Recreation/Activities] UID:47867 Activity:high
8/31    Why do many people spit in urinals? At work I often see people
        do this right before they pee. Today a guy did that and then spat
        into his piss before flushing. What the fuck dude.
        \_ It's gross, but it's less gross than seeing them spitting into the
           sink or the garbage can.
           \_ The sink seems more appropriate to me, as long as they're
              already running water there. People brush teeth there.
              \_ There IS running water in urinals.  The spitter is providing
                 the running water himself!
        \_ I think it is a psychological thing to make it easier to pee.
        \_ Target practice.
        \_ It's a man thing.  you wouldn't understand.
2007/8/31-9/5 [Science/Electric] UID:47868 Activity:nil
8/31    I want to make a little DIY electronic counter, where I press
        a button and a LED screen displays the number of times I pressed
        that button. Anyone have any ideas on how to build something
        like this? Would one of those PIC microcontrollers be useful?

                       when I told her (a few weeks before she was getting
                       married) that marriage required giving up some of that
                       'me, me, me' to make room for 'us, us, us'.  She's
                       still married 3 years later but they're both miserable.
                       \_ Wow, your wife's friend sounds like a gem. Sorry to
                          hear it. Hm, can we lay the blame at Dr. Phil's feet?
                          \_ In this case, no, just pure selfishness learned
                             long before Dr. Phil came on the air.
                 \_ Self sacrifice = tolerance for bullshit
                    \_ Sigh....  Please don't take a second wife, you'll just
                       be ruining her for someone else who might have been
                       happy.  Unless she's as selfish as you in which case
                       you deserve each other.
                       \_ You must have a different definition of
                          self-sacrifice. Mine involves doing things you
                          don't want to do for the sake of the marriage.
                          That always makes people happy! I think most
                          people on the MOTD are idealists who never
                          encountered real marital problems but, more
                          likely, just delude themselves into thinking
                          those problems don't exist.
                          \_ Self-sacrifice != surrendering your entire self.
                             In a marriage, it means working out what's truly
                             important and what's merely petty-ante power
                             politics and eschewing the latter.
                          \_ Not for the sake of the marriage, per se.  And
                             not thing you don't want to do.  But you do things
                             because it makes your wife happy and she does the
                             same for you.  A trivial example: my wife does
                             99% of the house work.  Sometimes she's tired or
                             just doesn't feel like it so I offer to do it.
                             I don't *like* doing housework but it isn't that
                             big a deal and it makes her happy that I'd do it
                             sometimes without being asked (much less nagged).
                             Was that a sacrifice on my part?  Sure, sort of,
                             but not really in the long run.  What sort of
                             sacrifices did you have in mind?  (And please note
                             that I did say this was a trivial example).
                             \_ You wife does 99% of the housework? Does she
                                have a job, too?
                                \_ She does not have a job outside the house
                                   recently.  When she did we had a maid
                                   service and split the rest of what the maids
                                   didn't do.  I hauled trash, we split the
                                   dishes, she did most of the laundry, etc.
                                   \_ I was wondering where you found someone
                                      who thought doing 99% of the housework
                                      was equitable. Now I understand. My wife
                                      works, but we share housework.
        \_ If you mentioned LED instead, it would be a typical CS150 assignment
           around my time (Fall '90).
        \_ It only exists for people with a high tolerance for bullshit.
        \_ Depending on how much of the circuit you wanted to build you can
           do all of it with a microcontroller, or you can use flip-flops
           and a multiplexer to hold the current state (count) for each digit
           required (four flip-flops per decade/digit).  Then you could
           use a FND357 (7 segment LED display) and a 9368 (7 segment decoder
           driver chip) to display each digit.  -scottyg
2007/8/31-9/3 [Politics/Domestic/Gay, Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:47869 Activity:high
8/31    This is why Edwards can't get elected:
        http://www.nydailynews.com/gossip/r_m
        In a recent speech, John Edwards told Americans to sacrifice their
        inefficient cars, and specifically, to give up their SUVs. But the
        presidential hopeful is driven around in a Cadillac SRX Crossover,
        which guzzles gas at 15 miles per gallon. His spokesman says that
        he drives a  hybrid SUV in North Carolina, but reports say the
        Edwards family has a regular SUV and a small truck as well.
        \_ He can't get traction because he's so obviously a fake and he's
           also pushing his 'rich vs. poor' thing during the best economic
           times the country has ever seen.  Class warfare is dead.
                \_ Yes, if you're rich the economic times are great.  It's the
                   third gilded age.
                   \_ Yawn.  The poor have never been better off.  The middle
                      class has never been better off.  The rich are always
                      better off so their status has nothing to do with
                      anything.  I'm not even close to rich and everything
                      is peachy.  What's *your* problem?
                      \_ The middle class income has been going down for about
                         six years now. You probably didn't notice. And an
                         overwhelming majority think we are in a recession
                         right now.
                         \_ And if the media told them they were doing great
                            they'd think it was a boom time.  That same
                            majority can't even define recession unless they
                            think it means lowest unemployment rate in the
                            western world.
                            \_ Ah, "the media" controls what everyone thinks.
                               I understand where you are coming from now.
                         \_ Paul Graham once noted that while income disparity
                            increases, 'lifestyle disparity' decreases.
                            The poorest citizens of the world have access to
                            things people even 50 years ago would consider
                            unattainable luxuries (cell phones for instance).
                            Bank account differences are somewhat of a red
                            herring -- they are important but they aren't a
                            good measure of 'inequality' because of the
                            diminishing marginal utility of money. -- ilyas
                            \_ The poorest citizens of the world are still
                               starving to death. Don't get too full of
                               yourself there.
                               \_ There are the poor wretches who had the
                                  misfortune to be born in NK, or some parts
                                  of SE Asia or Africa.  I don't think the
                                  root cause there is economic per se, or
                                  rather the economy is fucked because the
                                  places are run by thugs.  I was talking
                                  about places like India or China.  But,
                                  discounting the 'ultra rich', consider how
                                  similar people's lifestyles are in the
                                  States.  Compared to, say, one hundred
                                  years ago.  Upper middle class increasingly
                                  distinguishes itself by brands rather than
                                  'novel things' unavailable to lower stratas
                                  of society.  The same engine which increases
                                  income disparity also provides the Honda
                                  civics, ultra-cheap computers, cell phones,
                                  televisions, etc.  Actually the issue
                                  isn't just that money has diminishing
                                  marginal utility, it's that progress
                                  continues to raise how much 'lifestyle' you
                                  can buy on a limited budget.  One way
                                  the current trends can end is income
                                  disparity continues to increase, but it
                                  stops being relevant because goods become so
                                  well-made, cheap, and plentiful, that
                                  material scarcity gets essentially
                                  eliminated.  Sure, some people will still be
                                  significantly 'richer' than others, but
                                  what practical effect will that extra money
                                  have?  Perhaps there will be a market for
                                  'brands' or 'original works of art' or
                                  doing very expensive things 'for the soul'
                                  like funding wacky grand research projects
                                  or going into space.  People are too hung
                                  up on money.  I have a number of friends
                                  who are significantly more wealthy than
                                  me, and our lives are scarcely different.
                                  The difference will only get smaller.
                                    -- ilyas
                                \_ The televisions and clothes may be
                                   similar but the important differences are
                                   in things like working hours, vacations,
                                   health and health care, and real estate
                                   related issues (ghetto vs. nice place for
                                   children). In general I agree the poor
                                   are still mostly better off than before.
                                   \_ In my experience, the 'well off' that
                                      work tend to work harder and longer
                                      than minimum wagers.
                                      \_ In my experience, the "well off"
                                         retire much, much earlier, like
                                         in their 50s. The middle class
                                         retires in their early to mid 60s
                                         and the poor never retire. That is
                                         probably the biggest difference.
                                         \_ Yes of course, the question being
                                            what happens to the these
                                            differences as time passes.  Do
                                            the rich retire earlier today
                                            than 50 years ago?
        \_ If hypocrisy kept politicians from getting elected, there would be
           no Republican elected officials at all.
           \_ *laugh* Or Democrats either.  The blindness to the flaws of the
              party you don't dislike is just amazing.  I really do laugh
              every time I see one of these "my guys are all angels and your
              guys are all stupid and satanic" posts here or on various blogs.
              \_ Nice to see you are so easily amused. You obviously have not
                 thought very hard about the word hypocrisy and what it
                 means. There are plenty of things to dislike about Democrats
                 but not living up to their ideals is a Republican speciality.
              \_ Nice to see you are so easily amused.
                 \_ So bribery, theft, lying, hypocrisy and abuse of power are
                    a part of the Democratic party platform?  Thanks for
                    clarifying.  I understand now.
                    \_ I guess it depends on how you define "bribery and
                       theft." Do you mean taking tax dollars from one person
                       and giving it to another? Then yes, it is part of the
                       party platform. If you mean something else, please
                       provide evidence that Democrats are more likely to
                       engage in it than Republicans. And you keep throwing
                       out that word "hypocrisy" without any notion of what
                       it means. Go look it up in a dictionary and get back
                       to us, m'kay? How many Republicans vs Democrats in
                       Congress have been indicted in the last 10 years?
                       \_ If you can't see the hypocrisy of some very high
                          profile Democrat politicians, then you're just being
                          a politics homer/fanboi. Politicians are a bunch of
                          bums no matter what party. -not pp
                          \_ No one said the Democrats were angels. That was
                             a straw man you are responding to. They have just
                             not been as bad as the Republicans, at least
                             recently.
                             \_ We have to vote for our lizards so the other
                                lizards don't get elected.  -- ilyas
        \_ motd bleeding heart liberal here.  multimillionaire 25k
           square foot house trial lawyer owning Edwards talking about
           class war (I have some NO WAR BUT CLASS WAR shirts I can send to
           him) is pretty funny.  Homosexual law oppressing passing Senator
           Craig getting caught passing homosexual code is funny too.
           Idaho state policeman dedicating himself to undercover luring
           of old men into sex acts at the airport bathroom is the funniest
           thing all day though.  seriously, aren't there real crimes out
           there anymore?
           \- Minneapolis is not in Idaho.
2017/11/21 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
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