Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2007:July:24 Tuesday <Monday, Wednesday>
Berkeley CSUA MOTD
2007/7/24-26 [Uncategorized] UID:47398 Activity:nil
7/24    Patton lives!!
        \_ At first I thought this was a parody, then realized the guy
           is serious. In addition, most of the responses are positive
           written by a bunch of closet NeoCons. Interesting.
2007/7/24-26 [Politics/Domestic/President/Clinton] UID:47399 Activity:nil
7/24    Clinton: 35%. Obama: 25%. Gore: 15%.
        Is Gore the new Nader? Damnit.
        \_ Gore isn't on that page, or the dem one either...
        \_ It's hard to get good numbers when you aren't even running.
        \_ Huh? These are the primary elections you are talking about right?
           What are you afraid of, that Gore will get enough votes that Clinton
           wins the nomination?
        \_ Sheesh, it's a poll.  When people actually *vote* they are not going
           to write in Gore in large numbers.  Just a few kooks.
2007/7/24-28 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:47400 Activity:low
7/24    We could have won the war in Iraq if $PRESIDENTIAL_ELECTION_WINNER_2009
        had the guts to see the war through to its conclusion.
        \_ Remember, no one will vote for Hillary or a Scary Black Man, so the
           Republicans already have the election sewed up!
           \_ I'd vote for Obama even though I don't agree with a lot of his
              policies simply because he doesn't come across as a lying
              power mad criminal scumbag with a multi-decade record of lying,
              fraud, theft, and abuse.
              \_ Maybe he just hides it well. Care to describe HRC's
                 fraud/theft/abuse? Every politician lies. I bet you also
                \_ I think he's too young to have committed any major
                   crimes already.
                \_ At this point you seriously want me to make a list of HRCs
                   frauds and abuses?  You're completely unaware of them, huh?
                   You were born and raised in some foreign land?
                   \_ Well you could just put one or two of the most important
                      instances, as you see it. Because no, I'm not aware of
                      it. I have better things to do than follow the life of
                      this woman so closely. Are you referring to the
                      whitewater shit?
                      \_ Frankly, outside of freeper and Ditto Head circles,
                         I don't think anyone is aware of these allegations.
                         The American public sure isn't.
                         \_ So you believe that they haven't been aired or
                            that only people on the right are politically
                            aware enough to know what is going on?  Certainly
                            a great number of her 'events' got MSM air time
                            so you must think only the right wing knows what
                            is going on.  Weird.
                            \_ And yet, you still post no substance.
2007/7/24-26 [Politics/Domestic/Election, Politics/Domestic/Crime] UID:47401 Activity:low
7/24    The polls are in. Edwards tried his best and did ok, but in the
        end he has no chance. It's either a woman or a black man. Which
        one would you choose and why? (YouNeedToVoteToSeeResults)
        \_ His being a slimeball personal injury lawyer may have something to
           do with that.
           \_ I think he did some good work.  Do you really want all
              of your children's intestines sucked out by a pool?
              \_ Do /you/ want him channeling children to get a sympathetic
                 jury to trump good science in CP cases?
                 \_ And this is better or worse than Frist channeling a
                    brain dead woman for political grandstanding?
                    \_ False dichotomy.  They could be equally bad.  I don't
                       recall him channelling her though.
        \_ Hmmm, the criminal or the racist, what a choice!
           \_ Just like a cracker to think that all black men are criminals.
              \_ I think you're joking, but just to clarify, Hillary is the
                 \_ Yawn. Baseless accusations are so boring. Perhaps you can
                    organize a website to collect both your tinfoil hat and
                    your "proof"?
                    \_ Funny, I considered the "Obama is racist" claim to be
                       more controversial...
                    \_ Didn't Hillary kill Vince Foster?
                       \_ Just to watch him die.
                       \_ With her bare hands. In front of a busload of nuns.
        \_ Bro's before ho's
           \_ Thank you Butler.
        \_ It's a poll about a 'debate' on youtube.  There is no 'there' there.
2007/7/24-26 [Uncategorized] UID:47402 Activity:nil
7/24    Historically speaking, what is the chance of one candidate
        becoming another candidate's running mate?
        \_ It has been quite common in the past, but each situation is
           individual.  -tom
2007/7/24-28 [Transportation/Car] UID:47403 Activity:low
7/24    Looking to buy a new car.  I'm going to buy a luxury car this time
        to replace my 10 year old Toyota Camry.  Thinking of spending around
        40-50K.  I'm looking at Lexus, Mercedes, BMW, and Acura.  I know the
        reliability and quality of Lexus and Acura cars, but I don't have much
        info on Mercedes or BMW.  Have their quality improved in the past
        10 years?  I keep hearing about problems with the lower end MB or
        BMW cars like the C class or the 3 series.  What about the MB E series
        or the BMW 5 series?  Also I've been reading the discussion forum
        messages on Lexus RX and GS series.  A lot of people have problems
        with rattle noises or other small problems.  How much should one
        believe those stories?  Can one dismiss those messages as coming from
        vocal minorities?  I really liked the GS series but some of the
        messages I read are worrisome.  Thanks.
        \_ Get a Lexus SC430. Why? Because if you're looking for a luxury
           car and have had your oh-so-boring family car for a while,
           chances are, you've been married for a while, had kid(s), and
           stopped having sex. You're looking for a luxury car to spice up
           your life, ya? Get a SC430, you're guaranteed to get attention
           from mature women (late 20s) and upwards.
        \_ They should all be ok. I think safety, handling, looks, resale
           value all outweigh reliability concerns with these cars. I would
           expect MB to have more problems related to electronic doodads
           (based on hearsay).
        \_ Fuck Lexus.  get this
        \_ Which luxury car model has the best gas mileage?
        \_ I have a 2006 Lexus IS350 and a 2000 BMW 3 series. The Lexus needed
           a new transmission after just 3 months of driving. It had 2800 miles
           on it. It's a nice car that gets good mileage, but it's
           worrisome to have such a major problem so soon. The BMW hasn't
           had such a major problem, but it has had a litany of small
           problems like window regulators. I have put 100K miles on it.
           Stay away from Audi and MB. That leaves Acura. Only problem with
           Acura is that it's a rather boring car. Is this a car you are going
           to keep another 10 years or a car you will get rid of once the
           warranty expires?
        \_ Just stay away from MB.  I know a foreman who runs a dealership
           repair shop and according to him, they're crap.  They have too
           many electrical problems.
           \_ They were the best cars made 15-20 years ago, but not anymore.
              My mother-in-law has an S-class and my sister's bf has a CLS
              and they constantly have problems. Latest is that the air
              conditioning stopped working. In a 2004 car! It was fixed
              under warranty, but what a PITA. What happens when the
              warranty runs out?!
              \_ Then you pay $2k to fix it just like any other car.
                 \_ Hah! Dude, you pay $2K to fix something small and like
                    $6K to fix a real problem - and there are going to be
                    more of them than for the average car. I once took my
                    Accord in and had everything done to it - water pump,
                    radiator, CV boot, plugs, brakes, timing belt, etc. It
                    cost $1K. For a BMW you will spend $450 just to fix a
                    window regulator. I am sure Mercedes is the same. A
                    typical car is not $1-2K every time you bring it in,
                    but a BMW or Mercedes sure is.
        \_ In the last few years, MB has been battling it out with Volkswagen
           for the very lowest spot in the Consumer Reports Reliabilty survey.
           BMW is better.  My 2000 MB E320 has been uber reliable (now at
           84,000 miles) but I treat my cars very gently.  Note that 2000 was
           the one of the last years MB had good reliability.  Both BMW and
           Lexus are going to get clobbered by Acura and Lexus in reliability.
           BMW has the "iDrive" system which is universally loathed.
        \_ Have you looked at Infinity G and M series?
2007/7/24-28 [Health] UID:47404 Activity:moderate
7/24    Wow, universal healthcare is expensive
        \_ It comes to $3000/yr per resident.  That's actually less than
           my health insurance, which is $4200/yr.  I think they should
           build in more incentive to wellness on the part of Wisconsin
           \_ Where did you get the $3000/yr value?  And what do I care about
              "per resident" when it should be "per taxpayer"?
              From the article:
              The plan would cost an estimated $15.2 billion, or $3 billion
              more than the state currently collects in all income, sales and
              corporate income taxes. It represents an average of $510 a month
              in higher taxes for every Wisconsin worker.
              \_ $15.2 billion/population of Wisconsin.  It's actually $2700 or
                 so but I rounded up.  My health insurance costs $450 when
                 all is said and done, so if I were in Wisconsin, it'd be an
                 extra $100/month for me for there to be universal health
                 insurance. (I rounded up again.)  Workers here with families
                 pay $900/month for health insurance (most covered by employer).
                 \_ Of course, government estimates are never wrong.
                 \_ You'd be paying your $4K + the $3K.
                    \_ Maybe, maybe not. You might be able to get the money
                       back from your employer, since his cost will be lower.
                 \_ And why should people without families pay for those who
                    have them?
                    \_ It actually promotes my health not to be surrounded
                       by sick people.
                       \_ So paying for someone else's kid's broken leg from
                          soccer practice makes you healthier?  Okey dokey.
                          \_ No, but paying to control TB for example and for
                             immunizations in general does.
                             \_ You are picking and choosing though.  Paying
                                for 'universal healthcare' means you may be
                                paying for immunizations, but you are also
                                paying for a crapload of other things, many
                                of them misused _because_ they are perceived
                                as 'free.'  -- ilyas
        \_ And it may well not be doing any good. -- ilyas
                                \_ And employer provided health insurance
                                   isn't perceived as "free"?
                                   \_ My point wasn't to argue in favor of the
                                      current form of healthcare over
                                      'universal healthcare' but to try to
                                      shift the debate more towards looking
                                      shift the debate more towards looking at
                                      whether healthcare actually helps people
                                      be healthy. -- ilyas
                                      \- a study just came out comparing
                                         newly eligible medicare patients
                                         showing people who went from no
                                         coverage to covered needed more
                                         "work done" than people with
                                         continuous coverage.
                                         \_ I am not surprised that healthcare
                                            would be of benefit to that segment
                                            of the population.  This isn't the
                                            same as 'overall effects' on the
                                            whole population, of course.
                                              -- ilyas
                                         \_ Send me a link, please. -- ilyas
                                      \_ there are plenty of people without
                                         healthcare in the U.S.; do you think
                                         they're likely to be healthier than
                                         those with healthcare?  I can't
                                         believe I bothered to reply to that
                                         absurdity.  -tom
                                         \_ Feel free to actually read the
                                            study I linked (twice now I think)
                                            rather than acting like an ass.
                                            The claim is that while healthcare
                                            has a positive effect (obviously),
                                            this effect is mostly negated by
                                            negative effects (with some
                                            exceptions, for instance optometry
                                            is generally clearly beneficial).
                                            My untutored intuition would say
                                            that healthcare would have a
                                            positive effect, but a very
                                            inefficient one given the amount
                                            of spending.  That there might be
                                            no effect is something I think is
                                            pretty scandalous.  -- ilyas
                                            \_ I am LEWIS@SODA.  I am offering
                                               to teach you about Partial
                                               Derivatives, if you would like
                                               to learn about these wonderous
                                               \_ I think I understand what
                                                  an effect is and what it
                                                  isn't pretty well.  -- ilyas
                                            pretty scandalous.  Your example
                                            isn't as obvious as you might
                                            think -- are you controlling
                                            for race, wealth, etc?  What should
                                            you control for?  What shouldn't
                                            you control for?  -- ilyas
                                            \_ I'm going to control for
                                               ilyas being a moron by
                                               stepping out of this
                                               conversation.  -tom
                                               \_ So, ausman, to go back to our
                                                  earlier discussion: this is
                                                  apparently the best place
                                                  on the internet you could
                                                  find for general discussion?
                                                  I brought up this study
                                                  repeatedly, because I think
                                                  its conclusions are
                                                  somewhat counterintuitive
                                                  (they certainly are to me).
                                                  But the extent of discussion
                                                  so far has been either to
                                                  ignore it or ridicule it.
                                                  Compare to how this study
                                                  was discussed on
                                                  overcomingbias, for example.
                                                    -- ilyas
                                                  ignore it or ridicule me for
                                                  bringing it up.  Compare to
                                                  how this study was discussed
                                                  on overcomingbias, for
                                                  example.  -- ilyas
2007/7/24-27 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/President/Bush] UID:47405 Activity:nil
7/24    Hillary prefers "Progressive".  Hmm...
        Progressives ... tended to assume that opponents were motivated by
        ignorance or corruption
        \_ what is wrong about the above statement?
        \_ "In the United States, the Progressive Era was a period of reform
            which lasted from the 1890s through the 1920s."
           Hell, if you're going to go that far back, why not call Giuliani
           a Whig?
           \_ Hillary specifically referred to Progressive as an early 20th
              century movement.
              \_ Would it kill you to type out the quote?
                 \_ "I prefer the word "progressive," which has a real American
                    meaning, going back to the progressive era at the beginning
                    of the 20th century."
                    \_ Thank you! Wow, now I'm actually excited to vote for
                       \_ Huh? Why?
                          \_ Reform or bust, baby!
                    \_ Oho, you sneaky out-of-context quoter! From the next
                       line of the article:
                       "I consider myself a modern progressive, someone who
                        believes strongly in individual rights and freedoms,
                        who believes that we are better as a society when we'
                        re working together and when we find ways to help
                        those who may not have all the advantages in life get
                        the tools they need to lead a more productive life for
                        themselves and their families. So I consider myself a
                        proud modern American progressive, and I think that's
                        the kind of philosophy and practice that we need to
                        bring back to American politics."
                       Yup, looks good to me.
                       \_ You sneaky out-of-context replier!  Does she disclaim
                          any of the principles?  No, she specifically included
                          the early 20th century and she agrees with the
                          principles of that movement.  And my reply was to the
                          person criticizing my reference to the early 20th
                          century movement.
                          \_ So, the word "modern" in no way modifies the
                             views espoused in the early 20th century?
                             \_ I didn't say it "in no way modifies" anything.
                                \_ Soooo, if one of the principles of the
                                   early 20th century Progressives was
                                   that all of their opponents were corrupt or
                                   ignorant, which they generally were, is it
                                   reasonable that a modern Progressive, faced
                                   with a different political climate, might
                                   not view her opposition with such contempt?
                                   \_ That is one of the aspects of early
                                      Progressives which I see as relatively
                                      the same as modern liberals (or modern
                                      \_ BushCo invites oil execs to a secret
                                         meeting to determine America's energy
                                         policy, and you don't see corruption?
                                         If there's contempt for a corrupt GOP,
                                         it's hard to pretend the GOP hasn't
                                         earned it.
2007/7/24-27 [Politics/Domestic/Election] UID:47406 Activity:nil
7/24    So why did the "liberal" media obsess over Edward's $400 haircut
        and never mention Romney's $300 visit to the salon?
        \_ Because Edwards has way more fru fru hair and ultimately the news
           is about selling ads, the political agenda is second.
        \_ Because no one in their right mind could believe that Romney's
           dumb enough to pay good money to look like that.
        \_ You can't see how Edwards is being called out for being a hypocrite
           since his entire campaign is the "Two Americas" theme while Romney
           has never made that sort of statement?  No one likes a hypocrite.
           The people in the "poor half" of Edwards America sure as hell can't
           afford his $400 haircut.
2007/7/24-26 [Uncategorized] UID:47407 Activity:nil
7/24    Myth Busted, or True? The more/earlier I shave a part of my body,
        the thicker hair that area will grow?
        \_ Busted, it just seems that way because when the hair first grows
           it seems think.
2007/7/24 [Uncategorized] UID:47408 Activity:nil
        \_ Yes?
2007/7/24-28 [Health/Disease/AIDS] UID:47409 Activity:nil
7/24    2/3rds of US anti-AIDS program funding in Africa allocated to
        ineffective abstinence-only programs
        \_ That's because they're not believers. Time to send more
        \_ at least they died pure
           \_ Umm.. obviously not...
        \_ The best thing the West can do for Africa is stop using it as a
           giant social experiment and dumping ground for unsellable goods.
           \_ So we just stop selling them condoms and let them all die?
              \_ The second part of your sentence does not follow from the
                 first part.
2007/7/24-26 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:47410 Activity:nil
7/24    Every politician lies, therefore you should vote for the candidate
        whose policies mostly closely resemble those of George W. Bush.
        \_ Farewell to Bizarro World. You is our best friend.
2007/7/24-26 [Uncategorized] UID:47411 Activity:nil
7/24    WEEKLY WORLD NEWS to publish last issue in Aug.
        \_ I love Ed Anger
2007/7/24 [Uncategorized] UID:47412 Activity:nil
7/24    Is Yahoo having troubles today with web-based services such as
        mail and address books?
2007/7/24-26 [Reference/RealEstate] UID:47413 Activity:low
7/24    It might blow up, but it won't go pop
        It might blow up, but it won't go pop
        IT MIGHT BLOW UP, BUT IT WON'T GO - *BANG*,0,5439657.story?coll=la-home-center
        \_ Whoa, time to panic, Countrywide only had $485 million in profit!
           Run for the hills!
           \_ So, your response is "La, la, la, la! I can't hear you!" ?
              \_ What response should there be to half a billion dollars in
                 profit for a mortgage company?  -tom
                 \_ Ummm, I think "the husing market is so screwed it's messing
                    up even secure finance" is important.  You don't?
                    \_ How is a $485 million profit "messed up"?  -tom
                       \_ Profit is evil.  We must all share the good and the
                          bad as a society.  Think of the children, you brute!
                          \_ The 66% drop in earnings isn't a big deal?
                             \_ No, not really.  The industry clearly has
                                slowed down, which was anticipated by everyone,
                                including Countrywide.  They're still making
                                gobs of money.  They might make smaller gobs
                                of money in the future.  They might even lose
                                some money.  So what?  This is a company with
                                an $18B market cap and $200B in assets.  They
                                are not going away due to a few mortgage
                                defaults.  -tom
                                   Foreclosurse notices at 11-year high in CA
                                   \_ yes, and?  It's a cyclical industry on
                                      a down cycle.  -tom
2007/7/24-26 [Science/Battery, Science/Electric, Science/GlobalWarming] UID:47414 Activity:nil
7/24    Power outage in downtown SF. Lots of websites down.
        \_ Unable to surf, SF's civilization is down! CODE RED!!! Terrorism!
           \_ They got LJ, and now a million emo kids have nowhere to slit
              their wrists.
           \_ My old roommate drinks a lot and works there... hmmmmmm and is not online
           \_ FWIW I think the drunk employee story is a sham, but who knows.
              Just seems too much of a coincidence - drunk employee and major
              city power outage on same day?
        \_ D you know if affected Yahoo's webmail/addressbook/calendar services?
2007/7/24-28 [Politics/Domestic/911] UID:47415 Activity:low
7/24    TSA warns about "Terrorist Dry runs" involving suspicious cheese:
        \_ Uh oh, time to watch FoxNews and vote Republican for safety!
           \_ "And in November, a passenger in Houston, Texas, checked luggage
              that contained a plastic bag with a 9-volt battery, wires, a
              block of brown clay-like minerals and pipes."
              So are you saying this is made up?
              \_ You are being cited for violation of the "MOTD! NO FACTS!"
                 policy.  Next time the fine will go up dramatically and on
                 the third offence of bringing FACTS! to the motd you shall be
                 terminated with extreme efficiency.
                 \_ Are you saying the cheese incidents didn't happen? Are you
                    some kind of cheese-eating surrender monkey?
                    \_ I'm saying you better stop posting facts to the motd
                       before you get squished.
2019/04/18 [General] UID:1000 Activity:popular
Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2007:July:24 Tuesday <Monday, Wednesday>