Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2007:April:24 Tuesday <Monday, Wednesday>
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2007/4/24-25 [Reference/Military] UID:46426 Activity:moderate
4/23    For you guys who think we need guns to check government power, where
        do you draw the line? Is there a line for you, or should all small arms
        be legal for private ownership?
        \_ Define "small arms"
           \_ Yeah, I think recoiless rifles should be legit.
           \_ 50 caliber or smaller
           \_ Well, it seems to me that stuff like an MP5 with integral
              suppressor would be quite useful for the covert ops needed
              when trying to fight against superior federal forces. Same
              with full-auto guns and stuff with "assault" features.
        \_ Phased-plasma rifle in the forty watt range
           \_ So is a 39 watt plasma rifle ok?  you bastard!
        \_ only way to check on government power is to allow average citizens
           to own nuclear bombs.  And no, I still don't see the relationship
           between 2nd Amenment and *HAND GUNS*.  Why can't we ban all
           hand guns, but keep rifles and shutguns?  Why hand gun advocates
           never complain about our ban on grunade, rocket launchers, and
           artillery is beyond me.
2007/4/24-25 [Politics/Domestic/California, Politics/Domestic/HateGroups] UID:46427 Activity:high
4/23    "This guy had to be a liberal. You start railing against the rich and
        all this other -- this guy's a liberal. He was turned into a liberal
        somewhere along the line. So it's a liberal that committed this act.
        Now, the drive-bys will read on a website that I'm attacking
        liberalism by comparing this guy to them. That's exactly what they do
        every day, ladies and gentlemen. I'm just pointing out a fact. I am
        making no extrapolation; I'm just pointing it out."
        -- Rush Limbaugh on Cho
        \_ What day and time did he say this?  I'm almost 100% sure this was a
           joke, but http://mm.org never distinguishes between serious commentary and
           jokes.
           \_ (responding to myself), http://mm.org falls for Rush's joke hook, line,
              and sinker
              http://mediamatters.org/items/200704230012
              \_ please.
              \_ Perfect Rush response: "I was joking and you guys fell for
                 it, ha ha!  I'm smarter than you!  Oh, and I really meant
                 it, ha ha!  I'm smarter than you!  Oh, and I really wasn't
                 joking, either!"  -tom
              \_ I bet Hitler was joking too!
                 \_ He wouldn't have said so.  Why did you have to say
                    something so ridiculous?
              \_ Guess what, "can't you guys take a joke" is in the same
                 vein as "Some of my best friends are black!"  When you have
                 to go there you already lost and aren't doing yourself any
                 favors by not trying to drop the subject.
                 \_ Except that he made it clear the point he was making with
                    humor at the time.  Since he uses humor all through his
                    show, you nutty libs are left scratching your collective
                    heads, because you apparently don't have a sense of humor.
                    Unless of course you're watching Jon Stewart.
                    \_ yeah, you nigger.   ohh, i was joking too.
                    \_ No, sometimes humor is offensive.  Defending it as
                       just being a joke doesn't make it any less offensive.
                       \_ And an offensive joke that isn't funny is useless.
                          Along with Imus, Limbaugh deserves shit for his
                          "jokes" because he's simply not funny.
                       \_ You mean I can't tell black jokes at work anymore???
2007/4/24-27 [Science/GlobalWarming, Politics/Foreign/Asia/China] UID:46428 Activity:kinda low
4/24    China will pass the United States as the world's biggest source of
        greenhouse gasses this year
        http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8OMPHM80
        \_ As long as they only use one square per wipe it'll be ok.
        \_ But they have more than four times the population than ours.
           \_ what is your point again?  Global Warming is caused by human
              activities *OF 6-7 INDUSTRIAL NATIONS* in past 100 years.
              Why China/India should be asked to curb greenhouse gasses
              when the problem is mostly caused by France/Germany/Britian/
              USA?
              \_ Why?  Because they share the same friggin' planet and if
                 they want to be alive in 2050 or 2100 or whatever they need
                 to cut back the same as everyone else.  Dead planets don't
                 care about your historic/cultural 'rights' to screw shit up.
                 \- Larry Summers and The Big Fuck You:
                      http://tinyurl.com/yvexcz
                    in particular:
                      The industrial world was responsible for much of the
                      problem, he said, but most of the solutions must
                      come from the developing world, where emissions are
                      growing the fastest and infrastructure is still
                      unbuilt. The developing world should "demand" that
                      it be compensated and supported for taking actions
                      "in the interest of all," he said.
                    [given the context, it is kind weird to refer to the
                    harvard episode rather than "former treasury
                    secretary" ... they that's the clown-side of the NYT
                    secretary" ... that's the clown-side of the NYT
                    for you.]
                    \_  that is why I am no longer an environmentalist.
                        The major "environemntal movement" is just a scheme
                        for the Industrial Nations to exploit their ex-colonies
                        in the form of "new, environmentally friendly
                        technology which Industrial Nations collect royalty
                        upon, as well as the "carbon trading scheme" which
                        Industrial nations can purchase their way out.
                        If one is serious about the environment, have a
                        carbon cap on per capita basis, and give out these
                        new technologies for free to developing nations as
                        part of the price to pay for fucking up the environment
                        in the past 100 years.
2007/4/24-27 [Reference/RealEstate] UID:46429 Activity:moderate
4/24    Existing home sales drop 8.9% in March, largest since 1989.  Median
        home values drop 8th straight time.  Where's smug housing guy?
        http://urltea.com/fbq
        \_ Ooh, another huge 0.3% year-over-year drop!  RUN FOR THE HILLS!
        \_ Super-inflated Santa Clara / SF is going to take a long effin' time
           to drop significantly in price.  Podunk-ville, I can see real drops.
           There are three major categories of people in America:
           - Median wage earners
           - Professionals
           - Professionals (the future wealthy) and the wealthy
           - Fucking-super-wealthy bastards
           I call it "three America's".
           I think that the latter two are doing much better in terms of growth
           in net worth than the first group, which is reflected in the real
           estate environment we see today.  It's not a stretch to say as
           housing slows down, we'll see this trend more clearly.
           I call it "three America's".
           estate environment we see today.  Translation:  Regions with lots of
           professionals and/or the super-wealthy will maintain values --
           professionals and/or the super-wealthy will maintain value --
           because they can afford it, and they can stretch.
           professionals and/or the wealthy will maintain value -- because they
           can afford it, and they can stretch.
           \_ I think the profressionals are going to do worse and worse every
           \_ I think the professionals are going to do worse and worse every
              generation from now on till they more or less don't exist
              anymore.
              \_ It's happening right now and has been for 20+ years.  Look at
                 doctors for a start.
                 \_ What about them...? I agree that over time professionals
                    are doing worse in ways that matter: hours worked,
                    vacation, benefits etc. Most doctors I see are doing very
                    well though. Maybe they suffer more getting started though.
                    \_ Their incomes have eroded and their work hours have
                       increased. My neighbor is a doctor and he said that
                       his life is much different than his father's was
                       (his father was also a doctor) and that he's not
                       recommending that his 17 year old son go to medical
                       school at all when the time comes. Yes, doctors
                       still do well, but the above states "worse and
                       worse" which is true. That's not even accounting
                       for "getting started" which involves (for many)
                       $200K in student loans.
        \_ When prices drop 8.9% *and* I'm trying to sell my house during that
           drop, let me know.  A co-worker was reading too many blogs and
           convinced himself that a 40% drop in prices was coming (due about
           6 months ago).  I'd love to see a 40% price drop.  Then I could
           afford to move to another house and buy a few more as investments.
           Or housing prices can stay where they are or keep going up.  Then
           when I sell my house I have a huge profit.  Either way, as a home
           owner I win big time.
           \_ I'm not saying there's going to be a 40% drop, but if there
              WAS a 40% drop here is how it would start.  Prices on houses
              drop a little.  The market gets a bit skittish.  People trying
              to sell their residences take places off the market/stay where
              they are for longer.  If this reduction in supply doesn't
              bring prices back people who have to sell or new construction
              has to drop because the owners are losing money if they don't
              sell.  Thus starts the death spiral.  Once again I'm not
              saying this is going to happen.
2007/4/24-26 [Uncategorized] UID:46430 Activity:nil
4/24    "Kryptonite" Found in Serbia:
        http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/6584229.stm
        \_ I thought they found a bicycle lock. :-)
2007/4/24-25 [Computer/Rants, Recreation/Food] UID:46431 Activity:nil 72%like:46418
4/23    NYTimes, reform the farm bill!
        http://urltea.com/fbx (nytimes.com)
2007/4/24-26 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:46432 Activity:low
4/24    http://edition.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/04/23/iraq.main/index.html
        Diyala province, truck bombs (two 30-ton dump trucks) kill 9 U.S.
        soldiers at small patrol base, five hospitalized.  (IIRC, the last
        major non-mortar attack that penetrated a U.S. base was the cafeteria
        one.)  God forbid we see more of these.
        \_ While it sounds bad, it may be a shift in tactic by the resistance
           from sectarian killings to US military.  *IF* there is a big drop
           in sectarian killings in Bagdad during this time, this may actually
           meant the "surge" is "working" in the sense that it stopped the
           secartian killings.  Of course, if the data shows that secartian
           killing has no significance in reduction, then, all these means
           that the resistence is getting stronger and bolder.
        \_ Or it just means that fighting an insurgency is a long dirty ugly
           battle with few easy clear cut victories.  Looking at any one single
           day and saying "it means this" or "it means that" in either
           direction is just guessing.
2007/4/24 [Transportation/Bicycle] UID:46433 Activity:nil 90%like:46438
4/24    http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-bikevalet23apr23,0,5859225.story?coll=la-home-headlines
        Bicycle valet services. Free.
        \_ Every been to the bikestation at berkeley bart?
        \_ BART has been providing the same service for a while:
           http://www.bart.gov/guide/bikes/bikeOverview.asp
2007/4/24-27 [Reference/RealEstate] UID:46434 Activity:kinda low
4/24    The sign is here. Swami the Magnificent's prediction is
        coming true. November 2007 will be the nadir of Real Estate:
        http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18289082
        \_ Swami was already wrong by at least a year on the peak, and
           real estate prices haven't gone down an appreciable amount.
           If they just start going up again in November 2007, Swami
           will have been 100% wrong.  -tom
           \_ Do you mean "Unless" instead of "If"? His prediction that
              the nadir is 11/07 would mean they would start rising in
              12/07, right? I think prices still have a long way to fall
              and will fall throughout 2008 as more and more neg ams cap
              out and ARMs expire.
              \_ His prediction was that the peak would be in 2005.  If
                 prices just stop going up for a while, and then start
                 going up again, there was no peak at all.  Personally, I
                 agree with you that we're likely to see prices flat or down
                 for a more extended time.  -tom
                 \_ http://www.csua.org/u/ik1
                    "...other cities have exhibited persistent monthly declines
                     since last spring, such as San Francisco and Boston
                     yielding negative monthly returns since May of last year."
                     \_ You can't look month over month; housing prices are
                        seasonal.  March numbers in California showed a
                        year-over-year rise of 3.2%; the Bay Area was up 5.6%.
                        Other places are down.  Overall it's going sideways
                        in terms of price, on lower volume.  -tom
           \_ When do you think the peak was Tom?
              \_ I think we've been on a plateau for the past 9 months or so.
                 It may eventually represent a peak, depending on what
                 happens in the next year.  -tom
2007/4/24-27 [Politics/Domestic/California/Prop] UID:46435 Activity:nil
4/24    More on Mello-Roos. Basically it curbes growth and sprawling,
        which you poor environmental hippies want anyways:
        http://www.planetizen.com/node/91
        \_ "The "auto mall" is now common throughout the United States,
           but it was invented in California -- not by the auto
           industry trying to sell cars, but by local governments
           trying to capture sales taxes. The plethora of outlet
           malls, entertainment retail centers, and regional malls is
           also partly the result of Proposition 13. So is the boomlet
           in the creation of new cities in the last twenty years --
           because for the first time in history, a California
           community could incorporate by transferring money out of
           the county treasury rather than raising taxes. Many of
           California's sprawling regional development patterns are
           the result of Proposition 13 also."
           What article are you reading?
           \_ That article is kidding itself if it thinks all of this is
              a result of Prop 13. All of that crap has happened in
              non-Prop 13 states, too.
2007/4/24-25 [Recreation/Dating] UID:46436 Activity:nil Cat_by:auto
4/24    motd guy here
        today Apr 24 2007 I will no longer look at porn.
        help me stay strong.
        \_ why?
           \_ Crap.  had a relapse.  ok trying again.  Wed Apr 25 2007.
2007/4/24-26 [Health/Women, Health/Men] UID:46437 Activity:high
4/24    dear married men, was sex more pleasurable without any condom?
        I've never had sex without condom and I'm curious. ok thx.
        \_ Yes it's INCREDIBLY good and addictive. It's better than drugs.
           It feels really really really good. Also note that if you do get
           addicted to bareback sex your life after 9 months will be
           hell for the rest of your life.
        \_ Try getting a steady girlfriend instead of using
           prostitutes.
            \_ gf insists on condom and would not discuss any other
               alternatives. You know, they have too much side effects
               like blood clot and stuff.
                \_ There're other effective techniques other than the
                \_ More likely to be a problem if the user smokes or is > 35yo.
                \_ There're other effective techniques than the
                   pill.  IUDs are quite effective and much safer these
                   days.
                   \_ Women still get pregnant on the IUD.  The advantage is
                      there's no pill to remember and they last for several
                      years (Mirena 5 years; copper T 10 years).
                      Disadvantages include not finding out about a bad
                      install or dislodging event until several weeks into
                      a pregnancy.
        \_ Hell yes.
        \_ Kimono ultra-thin condoms are better than regular condoms, but it
        \_ Kimono MicroThin condoms are better than regular condoms, but it
           still can't beat no condoms.  That is, unless one has premature
           ejaculation problem.  --- married 8 yrs
           \_ EIGHT years? How much are you actually getting now? Do you
              see a trend?
              \_ Frequency dropped quite a bit after our first son was born,
                 and dropped to almost zero after our second son was born.
                 That sucks.
        \_ The difference is actually pretty huge. I rarely went condomless
           before marraige and it is nice to not have to anymore.
        \_ Why are you framing this question for married men? Also, I am
           surprised at how many people are okay with having their wives
           on hormones. Maybe they should consider vasectomies. I fail to
           see how married == no condom. Disease shouldn't be an issue, but
           kids still are.
           \_ How many men out there do you personall know are NOT ok
              with their wives on pills?
              \_ I'm not. I don't usually ask other couples what sort of
                 contraceptives they use.
           \_ Dude, anal sex is so much better without a condom.
           \_ You know most women have no problems with the pill.  Why should
              I care if she has no side effects?
              \_ Actually, a lot of women do have side-effects and other
                 issues with the pill. Not a problem for the Hooters girl you
                 want to bang. A big problem if it's your wife and you care
                 about her health.
           \_ Vasectomies are cool if you don't want any more kids again ever,
              but they're not a reversible form of contraception.  Condoms,
              the pill, etc. are.
           \_ Sex with a condom is not sex... sorry.. after wife gave birth
              had to use condom, because she couldn't go back on the pill
              because she was breast feeding. It's just not the same. The
              warmth and the wetness can't be beat.
              \_ If she was trying to get knocked up then, well, duh.
                 Have all the unprotected sex you want. Re: "back on the
                 pill"
        \_ Just get a fleshlight. Women are just bitchy hassles.
           \_ How easy is it to clean?  It looks like it can't be cleaned by
              flushing water into it.
                \_ The withdrawal method has an 83% success rate
2007/4/24-26 [Transportation/Bicycle] UID:46438 Activity:nil 90%like:46433
4/24    http://urltea.com/fcm (latimes.com)
        Bicycle valet services. Free.
        \_ Every been to the bikestation at berkeley bart?
        \_ BART has been providing the same service for a while:
           http://www.bart.gov/guide/bikes/bikeOverview.asp
           \_ Well, BART doesn't provide the service, they just provide the
              space.  (And actually, that only in Berkeley)  -tom
              \_ There is something similar in Embarcadero. -ausman
2007/4/24-27 [Politics/Foreign/MiddleEast/Iraq] UID:46439 Activity:moderate
4/24    http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1614000,00.html
        Iraqi Oil: More Plentiful Than Thought, 215 billion barrels, or
        double only second to Saudi Arabia, and more than Iran at 136
        billion barrels of oil. So much for oil shortage. Time to fulfill
        your American dream by buying that big house 45 miles away from
        the city and the SUV you've always dreamed of having!
        \_ We pumped up 10% of all the oil consumed since the dawn of the
           age of oil during the first Bush term.  During the second Bush
           term, we will pump up 10% of all known reserves.
           \_ I suppose you know what the core of the earth is made of too?
              Or are you citing unnamed sources, or you 'just know'?
        \_ Do we really want to put more money in the hands of muslims?
           Let's break the oil habit already, fer chrissake.
           \_ I just laughed  when US was lecturing China about how China
              shouldn't be dealing with Nigeria and Sudan.
           \_ Every President from Nixon on has said this.  And during the
              Presidency of every President since Nixon we've gotten more
              dependent on imports.  Actually doing something about it
              will mean the kind of sacrifices by the American people that
              will get any politician who actually tries to implement them
              carried out of town on a rail.  So instead the system will
              collapse and we will elect a constant stream of more and more
              maniacal tyrants who promise to fix the energy problems.
              \_ C'mon, a "maniacal tyrant" persuaded us into a war with
                 Iraq, a country which never harmed us.  Granted, he did
                 that by lying to us.  How hard could it be to persuade
                 us to provide incentives, implemented on a gradual basis,
                 toward moving us to oil-independence?  Everyone knows
                 oil is running out.  Just look at gas prices.  Everyone
                 knows that we're headed for a collapse.  I doubt a
                 politician who says, "it's time to prepare for the
                 inevitable--this new gasoline tax will provide incentive
                 to moving to renewable transport fuels.  And BTW,
                 to reduce the impact on the poor, we're reducing the
                 income tax, so you shouldn't be paying any more overall."
                 \_ Poor people don't pay income tax.  Reduce the payroll
                    tax instead.
                    \_ I read that only 33% of adults pay income tax now.
                       That is scary for those of us who are paying into
                       the system.
                       \_ Where did you read this? I am skeptical.
                       \_ That seems hard to believe.  The majority of
                          Americans do pay more in payroll tax than in
                          income tax, however, a fact usually conveniently
                          left out by people who advocate income tax
                          taxcuts.
                          \_ I didn't say 'payroll tax'. However, that
                             just covers entitlements. I read it in that
                             rag called the Wall Street Journal. The
                             article is called "The Taxpaying Minority".
                             http://www.ncpa.org/sub/dpd/index.php?Article_ID=14434
                             It says something like 40% of taxpayers pay
                             92% of the taxes. 33% pay none at all and
                             the rest pay so little as to be almost nothing.
                             \_ First you say that only 33% pay payroll tax,
                                now you say that 33% pay none at all. Which
                                one is it???
                                \_ Huh?
                                   \_ "I read that only 33% of adults pay
                                      income tax now." "33% pay none at all..."
                                      Which one is it? You do understand that
                                      these do statements do not say the same
                                      thing, right?
                                      \_ First one was from memory. Second
                                         from the article. Just read it
                                         and see. The gist the article
                                         makes, from what I remember, is
                                         that some people pay more than
                                         "none at all" but it is so small
                                         as to be almost nothing.
                                         \_ Thanks for clarifying. The poor
                                            pay a disproportionate amount
                                            of sales, gasoline and use
                                            taxes as a percentage of income,
                                            so only talking about "income"
                                            tax is a misapprehension. Actually,
                                            when the WSJ does it, it is a
                                            deliberate attempt to distort
                                            the truth.
                                            \_ Sure, they do pay more in
                                               proportion, but (except for
                                               gasoline) those are state
                                               taxes.
                             \_ Ok, 33% pay none at all-- does that include
                                children, old people, and disabled?
                                \_ Obviously.
                             \_ If you look at all taxes we have basically
                                a flat tax, with each quintile paying almost
                                the same percent of their income in taxes.
                                However, since the very top has so much more
                                income than everyone else it makes sense they
                                are paying most of the taxes.  That doesn't
                                show the top is being taxed unfairly, it shows
                                that the bottom is getting screwed.
                                \_ I never said it was unfair. I am just
                                   saying that the tax base is eroding.
                                   \_ As the gap widens between the top tier
                                      and the rest of us also-rans, it would
                                      be more accurate to say that a smaller
                                      number of people are continuing to pay
                                      enormous (yet still not necessarily
                                      unfair) amounts into the tax base. It's
                                      so much eroding as it is becoming
                                      proportionately uber-relevant. -!pp
2007/4/24 [Uncategorized] UID:46440 Activity:nil
4/24    Jesus christ
        http://www.onemodelplace.com/member.cfm?ID=299456
        \_ NSFW, picture of a woman with breasts bigger than her hip.
2007/4/24-27 [Politics/Domestic/California] UID:46441 Activity:low
4/24    Dianne Feinstein comes down squarely on the RIAA's side on the
        Copyright Royalty Board ruling.  Please write her snail mail, or
        phone her office, to tell her how wrong she is!
        http://somafm.com/blogs/rusty/2007/04/senator-dianne-feinstein-has-wrong.html
        \_ DiFi is a sell-out, and has been a sell-out on this particular
           issue for many years.  -tom
           \_ Was it Pelosi or Diane who has the concealed carry permit issued
              in SF?
              \_ That's Feinstein.  Don Perata (the California State Senator
                 who writes most of California's state-level gun ban
                 legislation) also has one.             --alawrenc
2007/4/24-27 [Recreation/Food] UID:46442 Activity:kinda low
4/24    Anyone else going to the alumni BBQ on Friday, 4/28?  -jrleek
        \_ I'll be there.  --mconst
        \_ When and where???
           \_ Here's the reminder I got in the mail today from edilaic:
              We're having a barbecue on Friday, April 27 at 5:00! Everyone's
              invited to have steak and top dog hot dogs at Soda on the
              volleyball court, or possibly a pleasant vegetarian surprise
              (it'll be good, we promise.) Please send RSVPs to omgwtfbbq@csua
              if you're going to attend!
        \_ I'll be there.  It'd be good to chat again jrleek, its been a
           while. -quasi alumni mrauser
           \_ I think being an alumnus is like being pregnant. Either you
              or you aren't. A degree isn't a requirement either.
        \_ I can't make it this year, I have to study for my last finals
           evar!
           \_ Ah, BS.  You can slip out for an evening of burgers with the
              nerds.
              \_ Why didn't you guys use evite?  Can you just show up or
                 is RSVP mandatory?
                 \_ You should email politburo with these kinds of questions.
                    None of them read the motd AFAIK.  I just posted the
                    announcement here in hopes I could meet some other motders
                    there.  My guess is if you don't RSVP, you may not get
                    food.  However, there always seems to be too much food at
                    these things, so you'll probably be fine. -jrleek
              \_ I really want to, but I can't. I need to make sure that
                 I don't mess up the last two finals I will probably ever
                 take. I'm not just turning down burgers w/ nerds, I also
                 turned down karaoke w/ a fed. judge on friday as well :-)
        \_ I have to study for Boards.  How about beers at Jupiter in Dec?
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Berkeley CSUA MOTD:2007:April:24 Tuesday <Monday, Wednesday>